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Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

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ciembor

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Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostWed Mar 29, 2017 10:13 pm

Hello,

I would like to use VST link in Ableton Live to record swell, great and bass to separate audio tracks, to have more control over compression and adding other effects. Is it possible? If it's not possible to do this from separate instance of Hauptwerk, is it possible to start multiple Hauptwerk instances in the same time on the same computer?
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mdyde

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Re: Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 4:24 am

Hello ciembor,

[Topic moved here.]

Welcome to the forum, and thanks very much for the interest in Hauptwerk.

Yes -- it's possible to do that in the Advanced Edition of Hauptwerk (which supports multiple audio outputs).

First, with regard to using Hauptwerk with Ableton:

Ableton Live isn't a host that we have first-hand experience with, or officially support ( https://www.hauptwerk.com/clientuploads/documentation/PDF/HauptwerkPrerequisites.pdf ), but I know of no reason that Hauptwerk's AU/VST Link wouldn't work in it, and would expect it to be fine.

Hauptwerk runs as a stand-alone application, optionally using its 'Hauptwerk AU/VST Link' plug-in to route MIDI from, and audio to, an AU/VST host application. If you haven't already done so, I'd recommend starting by having a read through the 'MIDI sequencing, the Hauptwerk AU/VST Link and applying real-time reverb' section in the Hauptwerk user guide (on the Help menu in Hauptwerk -- pages 181-199 in the current v4.2.1 version).

The 'Composing pieces off-line from a MIDI sequencer configured conventionally (Hauptwerk as a ‘slave’ MIDI device)' sub-section (pages 189-194) has step-by-step instructions for how to use Hauptwerk in conventional MIDI sequencer environments, such as most sequencer users would probably want to use. However, in the case AU/VST hosts designed for live use (such as Ableton), in most cases it would be sufficient to use right-click auto-detection to configure MIDI settings for virtual keyboards, etc., as for normal stand-alone use. It would still be very important that you had the 'Hauptwerk AU/VST Link' entry selected specifically in the *left-hand* ('Console MIDI IN') column on Hauptwerk's 'General settings | MIDI ports | MIDI IN ports' screen tab, with no other entries ticked on that screen tab (in either column), and also with no entries ticked at all on the 'MIDI OUT ports' tab.

Note also that it's important that you have only a single instance of the Hauptwerk plug-in loaded within your host's project, since it wouldn't normally make sense to have multiple independent pipe organs within a single project, and Hauptwerk doesn't allow multiple simultaneous plug-in instances. (The user guide covers that in more detail on page 191, including how to use multiple tracks on different MIDI channels for different divisions, whilst sharing a single plug-in instance in Cubase and Logic, as examples.)

With regard to recording the audio from different organ divisions to different tracks:

Have a read through the 'Audio routing and multi-channel audio' section in the guide (pages 164-168). Basically (within the Advanced Edition), you would just need to:

- Go to the 'General settings | Audio output groups' screen. Insert two new entries named (for example) 'Stereo output 2' and 'Stereo output 3'. OK the screen, and just acknowledge the warning about the groups being empty currently.

- Go to the 'General settings | Audio outputs' screen. Make sure that the HauptwerkVSTLink is selected as the audio output device for the existing entry, with its device channels 1+2 selected. Insert two new entries named (for example) 'Stereo output 2' and 'Stereo output 3', select the HauptwerkVSTLink as the audio device for each, with device channels 3+4 for the 'Stereo output 2' entry and device channels 5+6 for the 'Stereo output 3' entry. On the 'Routing' tab, select 'Stereo output 2' as the audio output group for the 'Stereo output 2' entry, and 'Stereo output 3' as the group for the 'Stereo output 3' entry. Doing so places the new outputs in their appropriate groups. OK the screen.

- Load the organ using 'Organ | Load organ, adjusting rank audio/memory options/routing'. Highlight all of the Swell ranks in the left-hand browse list, then select 'Stereo output 2' as the their audio output group. Doing so routes them to that group, and thus also to the (only) audio output which is within it, i.e. the 'Stereo output 2' audio output (configured above as VST channels 3+4). Do likewise to route the 'Pedal' ranks to the 'Stereo output 3' group. OK the screen.

- Now in your VST host, connect the (single) HauptwerkVSTLink plug-in instance's VST channels 3+4 to the track for your Swell division, and VST channels 5+6 to the track for your Pedal (being careful to have just a single shared plug-in instance for all of the tracks, as above).

I hope that helps.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mundiglo

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Re: Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostSat Dec 04, 2021 9:28 am

Hi Martin,

I was trying to follow your instructions above in HW VI but I could not find the 'General settings | Audio output groups' screen.
Has the naming/terminology changed?
Thanks you for the help
Olaf
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mdyde

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Re: Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostSat Dec 04, 2021 10:01 am

Hello Olaf,

Yes -- the audio routing screens are different in Hauptwerk v5+, compared to v4. The 'changes in v5.0.0' section in the release notice, and the two 'Audio routing and impulse response reverb ..' chapters in the user guide (pages 186-221 in the current v6.0.2 version) cover it in depth, but here are some step-by-step instructions for routing different divisions to different audio device channels (e.g. to different VST channels) in Hauptwerk v5/v6:

- Load the relevant organ.

- Decide which of the available 8 mixer presets (which are global) you want to dedicate for the purpose. Let's say you choose to use mixer preset 1.

- Go to 'Organ settings | Organ preferences | Audio mixer preset' and select mixer preset 1, thus configuring the organ to use that preset. OK the screen.

- Now open the 'General settings | Audio mixer' screen.

- Find 'Mxr prst 1: Mstr mix bus 1 stereo mix 1 (main/recording)' in the left-hand bus list. In the right-hand pane, for its device channels select 'none'.

- Now, in the left-hand list of mixer buses, expand the 'Advanced items' node.

- Let's say we'll use primary bus 0031 for division 1, 0032 for division 2, etc., so scroll down the bus list to find 'Mxr prst 1: prmry bus 0031'. In the right-hand pane, name the bus something like 'Division 1' (or 'Great', or whatever you like, for representing that division, although it might be useful to keep the names generic in case you want to use the same set-up for several different organs which might have different division names). Select the desired device channels (e.g. VST channels 1+2 ) for that division.

- Repeat the last step for each of the other divisions that you plan to use (using buses 0032, 0033, and onwards), naming them 'Division 2', 'Division 3', etc., and assigning appropriate device channels to them (e.g. VST channels 3+4, then 5+6, etc.).

- Now open the 'General settings | Audio mixer bus groups screen. To keep things tidy, let's say we'll use group 0031 for division 1, group 0032 for division 2, and so on. Hence scroll down the left-hand group list to find 'Mxr prst 1: bus grp 0031'. In the right-hand pane, name it 'Division 1' (for example). In the lower part of the right-hand pane, make sure that mixer bus 0031 is ticked for it, and no others. You should see that mixer bus 0031 is named 'Division 1', since you named it that a few steps ago. Hence you will now have configured group 0031 to contain just bus 0031, so that all pipes for any ranks that you route to this group will play through just that one mixer bus (bus 0031, which you have assigned to your desired device channels for this division).

- Repeat the last step for each of the other divisions that you plan to use (using groups 0032, 0033, and onwards), naming them 'Division 2', 'Division 3', etc., putting bus 0032 in group 0032, bus 0033 in group 0033, and so on.

- Now open the 'Organ settings | Rank routing ...' screen. In the left-hand rank list, highlight all ranks for the first division. In the right-hand pane, for 'Rank output perspective 1 (front 1/main): Destination mixer bus group' select group 0031. You should see that group 0031 is named 'Division 1', since you named it that a few steps ago.

- Repeat the last step for the organ's other ranks, assigning them to the appropriate groups according to their divisions.

You will then have a unique group set up for each division, with that group containing a unique mixer bus for the division, with the desired device channels assigned for that division, and with the each division's ranks routed to its group (and thus to its mixer bus, which has the desired device channels selected.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mundiglo

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Re: Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostSat Dec 04, 2021 10:34 am

Dear Martin,
wow - thanks for that quick reply! I guess I need a minute or so to figure that out.
Best Wishes
Olaf
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Re: Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostSat Dec 04, 2021 11:20 am

Thanks, Olaf. You're very welcome.
Best regards, Martin.
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mundiglo

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Re: Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostSat Dec 04, 2021 1:34 pm

Dear MArtin,

so far so good.
I am stuck at the audio output device channel. Here, I only have the option 'Stereo (or mono) : 0001/0002 [=> 0001 / => 0002] and so on, but no VST channel - and also no sound in Cubase (but active MIDI).

Cheers

Olaf
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mdyde

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Re: Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostSat Dec 04, 2021 1:43 pm

Hello Olaf,

To send audio via VST to Cubase you would also need to:

- Select the 'Hauptwerk VST Link' as the audio output device on the 'General settings | Audio device ...' screen in Hauptwerk. Also set your desired sample rate (which needs to match the sample rate in your Cubase project).

- In Cubase, load the Hauptwerk VST Link plug-in, making sure that you only have one instance of it loaded in your project (e.g. load it in Cubase's VST instrument rack which you then route to a track, or loaded on a track directly, but only only on one track if loading it directly on a trrack).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mundiglo

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Re: Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostSun Dec 05, 2021 5:34 am

Dear Martin,
thanks again.
in Cubase I have just one instance of HW and therefore just one MIDI track.However I would like to route the different divisions to separate tracks in Cubase. Do you have a solution?
Thanks
Olaf
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Re: Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostSun Dec 05, 2021 6:28 am

Hello Olaf,

To do that:

- Remove the VST plug-in from the track.

- Instead add the plug-in in Cubase's Instrument Rack.

- Set the tracks to use that Instrument Rack instrument slot as their audio source (instead of loading the VST plug-in directly on the track).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mundiglo

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Re: Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostSun Dec 05, 2021 7:57 am

Hello Martin,

my setup already is HW via the Cubase instrument rack as described in a previous tutorial (HauptwerkAUAndVSTTutorials-UsingCubaseForBasicSequencingWithMIDIViaMIDICables).

- Set the tracks to use that Instrument Rack instrument slot as their audio source (instead of loading the VST plug-in directly on the track).

Not sure what tracks to use, sould this be MIDI or audio tracks? Ideally I'd like to have separate MIDI for each division. and I dont know how to get the different divisions to appear in my (Cubase) MIDI IN routing (since the MIDI ports for the manuals I assigned in HW).

Sorry for the confusion. Maybe I don't need all the HW mixer stuff if I only could route separate MIDI ports in HW to separate MIDI tracks in cubase.
Thanks.
Olaf
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mdyde

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Re: Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostSun Dec 05, 2021 9:44 am

Hello Olaf,

mundiglo wrote:my setup already is HW via the Cubase instrument rack as described in a previous tutorial (HauptwerkAUAndVSTTutorials-UsingCubaseForBasicSequencingWithMIDIViaMIDICables).


That was an old tutorial that was written for Hauptwerk v4.0. In more recent Hauptwerk versions the "MIDI sequencing, the Hauptwerk AU/VST Link and applying external real-time effects plug-ins | Recording, playing back and editing live solo performances with a MIDI sequencer dedicated exclusively to Hauptwerk ... (Bi-directional control of the sequencer from Hauptwerk)' sub-section in the main Hauptwerk user guide (pages 253-159 in the current v6.0.2 version) covers that approach generically, replacing that v4 tutorial. (We no longer have separate tutorials for each of the various sequencers/DAWs since the applications change frequently, and we don't have enough time to keep updating the tutorials for each of them as they change).

However, that v4 tutorial would still broadly be applicable, except for the differently-named screens and ports in Hauptwerk v6. In particular, in that tutorial where it refers to 'Sequencer MIDI ...' port columns on Hauptwerk's 'General settings | MIDI ports' screen tabs, in v6 those are now named 'Hauptwerk MIDI recorder/player external MIDI ...' and they're *rows* on the 'General settings | MIDI ports' screen (instead of columns).

mundiglo wrote:- Set the tracks to use that Instrument Rack instrument slot as their audio source (instead of loading the VST plug-in directly on the track).

Not sure what tracks to use, sould this be MIDI or audio tracks? Ideally I'd like to have separate MIDI for each division. and I dont know how to get the different divisions to appear in my (Cubase) MIDI IN routing (since the MIDI ports for the manuals I assigned in HW).

Sorry for the confusion. Maybe I don't need all the HW mixer stuff if I only could route separate MIDI ports in HW to separate MIDI tracks in cubase.


This topic was originally referring to splitting audio (not MIDI) onto separate Cubase tracks, so that's what my previous instructions related to. If you're only interested in splitting *MIDI* (not audio) to different Cubase tracks according to divisions then you wouldn't need to do any of the things in my previous instructions (relating to the mixer, mixer bus groups, audio channels, audio routing, etc.).

In Hauptwerk, with the relevant organ loaded, the 'Recording | View Hauptwerk MIDI recorder/player fixed, predefined MIDI implementation (for this organ) ...' menu function covers which MIDI channels each of the organ's divisions will use (if you were to send/receive MIDI to Cubase via the 'Hauptwerk MIDI recorder/player external MIDI ...' ports, in the way that the HauptwerkAUAndVSTTutorials-UsingCubaseForBasicSequencingWithMIDIViaMIDICables tutorial covered).

For example, for the St. Anne's organ, the MIDI channels are as follows:

- Pedal = MIDI channel 1.
- Great = MIDI channel 2.
- Swell = MIDI channel 3.

... so if you were to record MIDI as that tutorial described, all of the divisions would be recording MIDI onto a single MIDI track in Cubase, with each MIDI note's MIDI channel determining the virtual division upon which it would play.

Hence, if I understand correctly, what you're hoping to do is to split that MIDI input to different Cubase MIDI tracks according to the MIDI notes' MIDI channels.

I don't have Cubase installed right now, and I can't remember off-hand what the option is called, but I believe I recall that there is an option somewhere in Cubase to make it split incoming MIDI to different tracks according to the notes' MIDI channels. Hence that would be what you'd need, but I'll probably have to leave you to research that in Cubase's documentation. I recall that in Apple Logic's the equivalent option is/was called 'Auto-demix by channel'.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostSun Dec 05, 2021 11:07 am

Dear Martin,

thanks again for yor kind help. I'll give it a try.

Best Wishes

Olaf
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Re: Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostSun Dec 05, 2021 11:23 am

Thanks, Olaf. Hope you manage to get it configured how you'd like it.
Best regards, Martin.
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Re: Recording swell, great and bass to separate streams

PostSun Dec 05, 2021 12:24 pm

Hello Martin,

in the current Cubase the splitting function is called 'MIDI Input Transformer'. Now I've got my separate MIDI tracks for each manual and pedal :D .

Thanks again!

Olaf
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