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Keytech monitor recalibration problems

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How to separate screen into left and right stop jambs

Postby Antoni Scott » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:07 pm

For the last five years I have been unsuccessful in being able to separate the stop jambs into left and right. The User Manual directions are not clear to me. Is there any other place I can get step by step directions to save the left stop jamb onto my left monitor and the right stop jamb on my right monitor. There seems to be some confusion about which screen image I should use. I was able to get the left stop on the left monitor but the right monitor is blank and visa versa. If I am able to get the stop jambs onto their correct monitor by random steps that I could never remember, they are not saved when I exit.

I made do with working the same stops on either side until recently but now the organs are getting bigger and the stops look smaller and smaller. Any help would be appreciated.
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Re: How to separate screen into left and right stop jambs

Postby mdyde » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:59 am

Hello Antoni,

- First you need to make sure that your monitors are set up properly in macOS's 'Displays' Settings control panel by making sure that that the 'Mirror displays' option is *not* ticked. Once that's done, close macOS's Settings application.

- Now in Hauptwerk make sure that you aren't in full-screen mode. If in doubt, press the Escape key, which cancels full-screen mode.

- To avoid any confusion, make sure that the 'View | Console window 2 ... 4' options are *not* ticked. (If any of them are ticked then select them to un-tick them.) That will ensure that only the primary Hauptwerk window is open for now.

- Move that (primary) Hauptwerk window onto your left-hand monitor by dragging the window's title bar at the very top of the window.

- Now select 'View | Console window 2' from the Hauptwerk menu. A second Hauptwerk window will then open above the primary one. Drag that second Hauptwerk window (via its title bar) onto your second monitor.

- You should now have one Hauptwerk window on each of your two monitors. Tweak their positions and sizes to taste. Note that you can drag the bottom-right-hand corner of a window to adjust its size.

- Now load the St. Anne's organ (for example). You will see the organ's virtual console appear in both of the two Hauptwerk windows, i.e. on both of your two monitors.

- Select the desired virtual console page tab for each (e.g. 'Left jamb' on the left monitor and 'Right jamb' on the right monitor). The console page tabs are located just above the virtual console itself (below the window's title bar).

Does that solve it? If not, please let us know which specific step you're stuck on.

The Hauptwerk window positions (and their chosen virtual console tabs) are saved automatically when you exit Hauptwerk and restored automatically when you next launch it.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: How to separate screen into left and right stop jambs

Postby Antoni Scott » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:26 pm

Hello Martin:
Thank you for taking the time to outline the steps to separate the left and right screen (which worked successfully, by the way) . As before, but in the past it was in randon fashion, I was able to successfully separate the left and right screens, but the accuracy of the touch sensitivity was totally off. Even calibrating the screens ( both of them) didn't correct the problem. I must have tried this a dozen times over the last five or six years, each time with the same non-result. Of course, I don't know why, otherwise I would correct it. Very frustrating for sure. It seems so many people can use separate screens, I don't know why I can't.
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Re: How to separate screen into left and right stop jambs

Postby josq » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:12 am

the accuracy of the touch sensitivity was totally off. Even calibrating the screens ( both of them) didn't correct the problem.


Have the same problem (Faytech touch monitors). Seems to be a common problem except for the more expensive brands. Nevertheless, any suggestions are welcome.
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Re: How to separate screen into left and right stop jambs

Postby mdyde » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:36 am

Thanks, Antoni.

The calibration/accuracy of touch-screen monitors (and how to get touches on them, and touch calibration, to work properly when more than one monitor is used) are down to the touch-screen drivers and touch-screen hardware (not Hauptwerk). I can't help with that, I'm afraid. I have no experience with using touch-screens myself, although I've read here on the forum from various people that on the Mac platform some makes/models of touch-screens need the third-party Touch-Base drivers in order to work reliably when more than one touch-screen is used: https://www.touch-base.com/ . (I don't know whether the same is true on Windows, but I see that Touch-Base do make Windows drivers too.)
Best regards,
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Re: How to separate screen into left and right stop jambs

Postby Antoni Scott » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:47 am

Hello Martin:
The touch screen monitors I purchased (back in 2011 ??) were from Brett Milan. I used Milan because I assumed that he had tested the units, etc. The Touch Monitor is by Keytec, Inc which appears to be an NEC Accusync 221WM modified by Keytec Inc. The monitors were the largest ones available at the time.

I saw many images on the internet and even on the Hauptwerk web site of Hauptwerk organs with two monitors, each side displaying their respective stop jamb so I assumed it was a working system. The NEC monitors have very sharp images and after calibrating them display good accuracy (using a 25 point calibration).

I attempted to split the screens into left and right back in 2011 when I bought them but was unsuccessful. Every so often I would attempt to do it again, each time with unsucces. When I switched over to the latest operating system (OSX 10.10) I discovered that now, the calibration didn't work. Every time I turned on the organ I had to recalibrate BOTH monitors. It wouldn't save the calibration. If I calibrated one screen and then the other, only one would work by touch.

Keytec's customer service, a Mr. Robby Yu or a Bobby Yu was totally unhelpful. He sent me many "fixes", none of which worked and showed little interest in attempting to resolve my problem basically blaming the problem on Mac. Eventually, my persistence paid off and his "team" came up with a fix. It only took a year of back and forth. At least now, the monitors saved their calibration. But the monitors only show the full screen, not split jambs.

I can't believe my experience is unique. Am I the only person having this problem ? Possibly someone with similar problems as mine could respond.

I'm sure Milan sold more monitors the same as mine, possibly with the same hardware to plug into the computer and allow calibration of left and rights. I was one of the last ones to convert to the latest OSX upgrade which I didin't do myself. So I suppose I should be asking what do the other Hauptwerk owners do to get their left and right monitors to work.

Your instructions were clear and easy to follow (as always) and I was able to separate the left stop jamb and the right stop jamb. I calibrated both monitors. The right monitor calibrated properly but the left one did not. It sounds like the same issue I had before with Mr. Yu of Keytec a year ago. I had to revert back to the original set up by having the same stop jamb on either screen.

As I said before, I am able to play the organ with the same stops on both jambs but with the larger sample sets, its gets tricky to touch the tiny stop tab. The reason I attempted this stop jamb separation excersize again is that I am creating a custom organ with 200 stops, actually more if you figure in the couplers and Tremulants, etc. It is going to be hard to pinpoint a stop, somewhat like those theater organs with their hundreds of stop tabs.

Of course, none of this rises to the level of affecting my Hauptwerk enjoyment.

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Re: How to separate screen into left and right stop jambs

Postby mdyde » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:12 am

Hello Antoni,

Very sorry to hear you're still having problems getting KeyTec's touch-screens' calibration to work with OS X 10.10. I no first-hand experience at all myself with KeyTec's products, I'm afraid. I do appreciate that you originally bought them from Brett, although KeyTec themselves would almost certainly be the only people who would actually be in a meaningful position to resolve any driver/compatibility issues you might be having. (The touch-screens' driver and hardware determine calibration -- that's nothing to do with the Hauptwerk software per-se.)

Probably all that Brett could realistically do would be to contact KeyTec on your behalf to see whether they could work further with you to get the driver working properly for you on OS X 10.10.

However, my understanding from other topics on this forum about touch-screens on the Mac platform, is that the third-party Touch-Base driver is often regarded as the best option when using multiple screens. [I've merged this new topic of yours into your last ones about the screen calibration, so as to keep the topic together.]

As myself and others have mentioned various times (e.g. in your previous topics, which I've merged above), why not try the Touch-Base driver, instead of Key-Tec's? Realistically, that's probably by far the best and quickest way to get your screen calibration to work properly.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Keytech monitor recalibration problems

Postby Antoni Scott » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:08 am

Hello Martin.
When you mentioned using a “third party” touch base driver , I am assuming it is something that would replace the touch screen driver that I am presently using. If it was a definite solution to the problem (i.e. allow calibrations to work and to be saved) I would jump on it. However if it didn’t work the thought of having to deal with Mr. Yu again would make me leave well enough alone. As I said before it took months and months before his team came up with a fix ( i.e. to be able to save the calibration on both screens even if both screens showed the same full screen rather than divided jambs. However if Brettsas willing to contact Keytec it would be appreciated. As I said before it would surprise me that I am the only person to have had this problem.
I would assume that to install another driver would require deleting the present one, and herein would lie the problem.
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Re: Keytech monitor recalibration problems

Postby telemanr » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:19 am

Why would deleting the current driver be a problem? You’d have to do that if it was corrupted in order to reinstall the same one again.
It’s not as if with the driver uninstalled you can't use the mouse to continue with installing a different one.
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Re: Keytech monitor recalibration problems

Postby Antoni Scott » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:13 pm

ToTelemar.
Deleting the driver is not a problem. The problem is if a different driver were installed and it didn’t work and then I reinstalled the Keytec driver. Looking at the worse case scenario, reinstalling the driver may not work. It’s not scynicism on my part. , just experience and being overly cautious. Dealing with Keytec was a nightmare. I had to call them at least a dozen times before they ( specifically a Mr. Yu) dealt with the problem. I have no idea what was going on behind the scenes at Keytec but they sort of put the blame on Mac. I dont believe that for a second but this inability to hold a calibration was a problem for over six months before they came up with a fix. The monitors are sharp and the touch point very precise but Keytec’s customer service is atrocious. If I used a third party driver and it didn’t work it would give Keytec an out to take responsibility for their driver problem.
I’m assuming you have touch screens with no problems. Can I ask what brand ?
All these problems with calibration. etc occurred when I installed OSX 10.10. Just recently I tried again to split the screens. I really don’t care if I never use split screens but it would be nice since feature is there. However I would be upset if I had to recalibrate the screens every time I turned Hauptwerk on since getting help from Keytec would be non-existent. Lengthy explanation.
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Re: Keytech monitor recalibration problems

Postby chr.schmitz » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:39 pm

Antoni,

I can highly recommend the Touch-Base drivers. These drivers are not inexpensive, but they a worth every penny. Dave Bhattacharjee from Touch-Base is very helpful to tackle your issues. Whenever I needed support (mainly after OS updates), my system was generally up and running again in less than 12 hours.

As Touch-Base offers a time limited demo, you are save to test the drivers before you decide to purchase them.

Best, Chris
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Re: Keytech monitor recalibration problems

Postby Grant_Youngman » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:22 pm

Touch-Base drivers work just fine. I've been using them for several years. Like you, at some point I started having issues with the native drivers from Keytec on my Mac. Keytec was never able to provide a solid fix, and I jumped to Touch-Base.

Prices look high on the touch base website, but (at least when I bought mine) there was 50% discount for personal non-commercial use. YMMV.

Just buy the drivers and be done with it … :-)
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Re: How to separate screen into left and right stop jambs

Postby marcus.reeves » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:48 pm

Antoni Scott wrote:Keytec's customer service, a Mr. Robby Yu or a Bobby Yu was totally unhelpful. He sent me many "fixes", none of which worked and showed little interest in attempting to resolve my problem basically blaming the problem on Mac. Eventually, my persistence paid off and his "team" came up with a fix. It only took a year of back and forth. At least now, the monitors saved their calibration. But the monitors only show the full screen, not split jambs.


In the interests of fairness, and as a Mac user with two Keytec overlays on monitors, I have found Robby Yu to be quick, and helpful, in all my dealings with him. He always provides me with the necessary Mac drivers whenever Apple upgrades its OS, within 24 hours of my asking, and I have no issues with my screens displaying different images with accurate touch screen calibration.
Best wishes,
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Re: Keytech monitor recalibration problems

Postby mdyde » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:54 am

For what it's worth, I've never heard (either via this forum, or via email) of any Hauptwerk user who has had any problems with the Touch-Base driver; it seems to be very well-regarded.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Keytech monitor recalibration problems

Postby organtechnology » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:00 pm

It seems we may need a new supplier for touchscreens. It appears that Keytec has closed their offices and Robby Yu is now working for Touchwindow.com.

The old Magic Touch website references Robby [at] touchwindow.com for future purchase possibility.

http://www.magictouch.com/
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