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Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostThu Aug 17, 2017 8:55 pm

Hi Ken,

Is the configuration switch #8 in the off position (operational)?

Thomas
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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostFri Aug 18, 2017 4:20 am

Hello Ken,

mdyde wrote:What did you use to send that MIDI output from the computer (via MIDI-OX)? (Presumably not Hauptwerk, since you mention MIDI-OX was the only thing running?) E.g. did you type the MIDI messages directly into MIDI-OX to send them directly from MIDI-OX?


kaspencer wrote:My post of Thu 17th Aug, 2017 5:14 pm showed the simple results of connecting the Rocker Tab Board to the PC, starting MIDI-OX and the then capturing the MIDI IN and MIDI OUT messages when I enabled the first Tab and then disabled it - I just tapped the Tab. The Tab sent the messages as I tapped - I did nothing other than retrieve the messages using MIDI-OX's Copy command.


kaspencer wrote:... and based on observation it could well be that the board is not collecting MIDI OUT data (although MIDI-OX suggests that it may be).


My point was that you presumably also had Hauptwerk running simultaneously on the computer (or at least some other MIDI application apart from just MIDI-OX) because MIDI-OX showed MIDI OUT messages being sent from the computer. The computer can't send MIDI output messages unless some software (in the computer) sent them. Hence all that the 'MIDI OUT' excerpt from your MIDI-OX log is showing is what the computer (presumably Hauptwerk) is sending -- it doesn't in any way imply that the messages sent (i.e. the MIDI OUT messages shown in the MIDI-OX excerpt and in your Hauptwerk activity log excerpt) are what the rocker tabs are configured/expecting to hear, or even whether the rocker tabs are actually receiving any incoming MIDI messages at all.

If it was definitely the case that the only MIDI application running on the computer was MIDI-OX then it must have been MIDI-OX itself that sent those MIDI OUT messages (e.g. perhaps you had accidentally set up MIDI port mapping/forwarding in it). I would suggest making sure that you don't have MIDI-OX running whilst Hauptwerk is running since MIDI-OX might interfere with the MIDI messages going to/from the computer (if so configured). If you need to see the MIDI messages going to/from Hauptwerk then Hauptwerk's built-in MIDI logging is the safest and most comprehensive way to do it.

kaspencer wrote:it does show that the port for MIDI OUT on the device is different from that for MIDI IN (2 for MIDI OUT), but I cannot see what I should select in Hauptwerk's MIDI OUT dialogue to replace what is configured by Auto-Detect.


The MIDI OUT messages shown in MIDI-OX aren't really meaningful/useful (since all they're showing is what the computer happens to be sending, not what the rocker tabs need to receive, as above). Also the MIDI port numbers shown in MIDI-OX's log aren't relevant.

I can see from your Hauptwerk activity log excerpt that your MIDI ports (both IN and OUT) are configured properly in Hauptwerk (both enabled correctly, and the correct MIDI OUT port selected for the virtual stop during auto-detection, i.e. 'CLASSIC Lighted Rockers 01-000'), hence there's no problem with your MIDI ports.

Are these the instructions for the specific rocker tab unit that you have?:

https://www.midiworks.ca/index.php/support/42-faqs/lighted-rocker-tabs/179-configuring-your-usb-lighted-rocker-tabs

If so, based on those instructions, please try:

- Make sure that the rocker tab unit's 'test mode' DIP switch (number 8) is in the 'off' position, as Thomas mentioned.

- For good measure, shut the computer down and completely remove mains power to everything (so as to ensure that the rocker tabs are fully reset, which the instructions mention to be necessary after changing any of the DIP switches).

- Start everything up again.

- Make sure that MIDI-OX is *not* running.

- Launch Hauptwerk and load St. Anne's.

- Right-click on the virtual Great Clarion 4 stop and select 'Auto-detect ..'.

- Being careful not to touch anything else (so that no spurious MIDI messages are heard by the computer), follow the on-screen instructions to turn the relevant rocker tab on (by pushing the bottom of the rocker tab) and then turn it off again (by pushing the top of the rocker tab). (It's essential that Hauptwerk gets to hear both the 'on' and the 'off' messages, so that it can configure itself to respond appropriately to them.) The Done button should light up. Don't click it yet.

- Make sure that the 'Send matching MIDI output ...' *is* ticked, but that the 'Toggle state of virtual stop ...' option is *not* ticked, and that your 'CLASSIC Lighted Rockers 01-000' entry is selected for the MIDI OUT port, similar to their screenshot (although the exact name of the rocker tab unit in their screenshot will be slightly different to yours):

Image

- Now click the Done button.

Can the virtual Clarion 4 stop now be turned on and off properly from the relevant rocker tab?

Also, can you now turn the relevant rocker tab's lamp on and off properly by clicking with the mouse on the the virtual Clarion 4 stop?
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostFri Aug 18, 2017 4:55 am

Thanks Martin and Graham. We're nothing if not persistent!

Anyway, it is good news!
I have discovered that I was misinterpreting the diagrams on the CMOW setup sheet (yes, that is the one Martin). It is not completely clear how the board should be orientated to identify correctly when the DIP switches are ON or OFF, and I did not have that right!

I shall amend CMOW's setup sheet to remove the ambiguity and pass it back, and also put a copy on my own organ project website.

Martin, Graham, Thomas, Ollie and Douglas I think I owe you a bit of an apology for what turned out to be a bit of a wild goose chase, and I am grateful for your interest and help.

Best wishes

Ken
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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostFri Aug 18, 2017 5:03 am

Thanks, Ken.

No problem. Glad to hear it's resolved now.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostFri Aug 18, 2017 7:38 am

Hi Ken

Glad to hear you have resolved it!

As for
It is not completely clear how the board should be orientated to identify correctly when the DIP switches are ON or OFF, and I did not have that right!


I had a similar experience the other day with some Doepfer encoders that resulted in my reading the LED displays upside down!

Regards
Graham
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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostFri Aug 18, 2017 9:19 am

Hi Martin

It has just occurred to me that some of the stuff I was saying about needing to resort to manual configuration in order to get the illuminated rocker tabs working might hark back to the days of Hauptwerk 3 when it was still possible/necessary to do such things.
When was Hauptwerk 4 introduced?
I can't remember which version of Hauptwerk we were on at the time, but it was March 2013 when I set up the rocker tabs.

Regards
Graham
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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostFri Aug 18, 2017 11:29 am

Hello Graham,

v4 definitely existed in 2013. I think Classic MIDI Works have probably enhanced the firmware considerably in their newer versions of the rocker tabs.
Best regards, Martin.
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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostTue Aug 22, 2017 5:27 pm

Yes indeed, Martin ... the old Rocker Tabs (LRT 3 and LRT 3a) had a board to support the Tab Switches and then a separate MIDI controller board and PSU. The current board (LRT 5) has everything on one PCB, and has only a USB interface which also powers the board.

Graham: I must say that I was really embarrassed at my confusion over the orientation of the Board/DIP Switches. And here I was thinking I was an expert!

It'll be another two months before the new console is finished, but I'll put some pictures up when it is.

Best wishes,

Ken
Kenneth Spencer
Music Site: http://www.my-music.mywire.org
Project Page: http://www.my-music.mywire.org/opus_ii.htm
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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostSat Aug 12, 2023 8:55 am

kaspencer wrote:Anyway, it is good news!
I have discovered that I was misinterpreting the diagrams on the CMOW setup sheet (yes, that is the one Martin). It is not completely clear how the board should be orientated to identify correctly when the DIP switches are ON or OFF, and I did not have that right!

I shall amend CMOW's setup sheet to remove the ambiguity and pass it back, and also put a copy on my own organ project website.


Ken,

I just recently got the USB Rocker Tabs from CMOW, and I was trying to figure out the same problem as my lights were out of sink with the tabs. Can you share where the amended CMOW Setup Sheet you referenced?? I desperately would like to fix this.

Thanks in advance for your time,

Scott
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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostMon Aug 14, 2023 11:42 am

SKresge wrote on Sat 12th Aug, 2023 2:55 pm
Ken,
I just recently got the USB Rocker Tabs from CMOW, and I was trying to figure out the same problem as my lights were out of sink with the tabs. Can you share where the amended CMOW Setup Sheet you referenced?? I desperately would like to fix this.
Thanks in advance for your time,
Scott


Thanks, Scott

... if you drop me an email (I don't mind you knowing it is Kenneth@KASpencer.com), I'll send you a pdf of the modified instructions for the Rocker Tabs.

Best wishes,

Kenneth
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Kenneth A. Spencer
==============
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Music Site: http://www.my-music.mywire.org
Project Page: http://www.my-music.mywire.org/opus_ii.htm
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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostTue Aug 15, 2023 1:49 pm

mdyde wrote:- Launch Hauptwerk and load St. Anne's.

- Right-click on the virtual Great Clarion 4 stop and select 'Auto-detect ..'.

- Being careful not to touch anything else (so that no spurious MIDI messages are heard by the computer), follow the on-screen instructions to turn the relevant rocker tab on (by pushing the bottom of the rocker tab) and then turn it off again (by pushing the top of the rocker tab). (It's essential that Hauptwerk gets to hear both the 'on' and the 'off' messages, so that it can configure itself to respond appropriately to them.) The Done button should light up. Don't click it yet.

- Make sure that the 'Send matching MIDI output ...' *is* ticked, but that the 'Toggle state of virtual stop ...' option is *not* ticked, and that your 'CLASSIC Lighted Rockers 01-000' entry is selected for the MIDI OUT port, similar to their screenshot (although the exact name of the rocker tab unit in their screenshot will be slightly different to yours):

Image

- Now click the Done button.

Can the virtual Clarion 4 stop now be turned on and off properly from the relevant rocker tab?

Also, can you now turn the relevant rocker tab's lamp on and off properly by clicking with the mouse on the the virtual Clarion 4 stop?


Martin,

I have been followed everything in this thread, changed channels and starting numbers, but nothing seems to make a difference. I can get the rocker tab to turn couplers on and off, but I cannot get the Hauptwerk program to turn on the respective light on the LRT Board. I even tried the the clarion stop as well.

I have noticed that when I press the rocker tab on and off the green midi in and the red midi out light at the same time for both actions. When I take the mouse in Hauptwerk and click coupler or stop I see the midi out light up only for that channel. I am also running MIDI Monitor and I can see the channel and number for each show up when I when i press the tab on and then off, but nothing shows up at all on the MIDI monitor when I select the appropriate coupler or stop in Hauptwerk. It is like there is no signal going to the LRT??

Scott
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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostTue Aug 15, 2023 2:21 pm

Hello Scott,

As when this topic was posted (six years ago now), I still have no experience with Classic MIDI Works' Lighted Rocker Tabs (CMW LRT) -- I'm not really in a position to be able to advise meaningfully on what might be necessary to get them to work. I'd suggest contacting Classic MIDI Works directly, since they design and supply them for use with Hauptwerk, and they will have both Hauptwerk and their LRT product there, so they should be able to advise how they're meant to be used.

Apart from that, the only things I can suggest are:

- Make sure you have the relevant MIDI output port enabled on the "General settings | MIDI ports | MIDI OUT ports" screen tab. Then try auto-detecting the virtual stop again, and make sure that you select that MIDI OUT port on the auto-detection screen (otherwise Hauptwerk won't be able to send MIDI), and also that the "Send matching MIDI output ..." option is ticked.

- If you right-click on the virtual stop and select "Adjust MIDI/trigger settings manually ..." you could see, and if desired change, the auto-detected MIDI and input and output settings for the stop.

- If you temporarily turn on the "Diagnostics: log all MIDI messages received and sent" option on the "General settings | General preferences | Advanced ..." screen in Hauptwerk, OK the screen and the performance warning, then turn the the CMW LRT stop on and off again, then use "Help | Show activity log" and look at the end of the log you will be able to see what MIDI messages Hauptwerk received from your CMW LRT stop when you turned it on/off, and what (if any) MIDI messages Hauptwerk sent to it in response. Likewise, you could try clicking on the virtual stop, then reopening the log to see what MIDI messages Hauptwerk sent to the CME LRT stop.

If that doesn't solve it, then I think you would really need to contact Classic MIDI Works directly -- they would be in a position to be able to advise meaningfully.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostTue Aug 15, 2023 3:45 pm

mdyde wrote:- If you temporarily turn on the "Diagnostics: log all MIDI messages received and sent" option on the "General settings | General preferences | Advanced ..." screen in Hauptwerk, OK the screen and the performance warning, then turn the the CMW LRT stop on and off again, then use "Help | Show activity log" and look at the end of the log you will be able to see what MIDI messages Hauptwerk received from your CMW LRT stop when you turned it on/off, and what (if any) MIDI messages Hauptwerk sent to it in response. Likewise, you could try clicking on the virtual stop, then reopening the log to see what MIDI messages Hauptwerk sent to the CME LRT stop.


I am trying to understand the MIDI messages going out from HW. I did what you suggested and got the following report, but don't understand all of it. I know the first two grouping are the rocker tab successfully turning the coupler on and then off. The second two groupings show the message being sent out from HW to the LRT when i used the mouse to click the same coupler on and off, and it appears that it got the right channel and corresponding number of the rocker tab. Aside from that, not sure what all the other numbers are telling me and it looks like it should be working. Scott


2023-08-15-15-44-20: INF:2553 Diag: IN: MIDI control change: port: Console MIDI IN 12 [=> CLASSIC Lighted Rockers 12-016], channel (1-16): 12, controller (0-127): 081, value (0-127): 016. (Raw hex bytes: BB 51 10.)
2023-08-15-15-44-20: INF:2656 Diag: IN (derived): virtual switch turned on by MIDI/key input event: 001111 'Coupler: Sw to Gt'.
2023-08-15-15-44-20: INF:2565 Diag: OUT: MIDI control change: port: Console MIDI OUT 12 [=> CLASSIC Lighted Rockers 12-016], channel (1-16): 12, controller (0-127): 081, value (0-127): 016. (Raw hex bytes: BB 51 10.)

2023-08-15-15-44-21: INF:2553 Diag: IN: MIDI control change: port: Console MIDI IN 12 [=> CLASSIC Lighted Rockers 12-016], channel (1-16): 12, controller (0-127): 080, value (0-127): 016. (Raw hex bytes: BB 50 10.)
2023-08-15-15-44-21: INF:2658 Diag: IN (derived): virtual switch turned off by MIDI/key input event: 001111 'Coupler: Sw to Gt'.
2023-08-15-15-44-21: INF:2565 Diag: OUT: MIDI control change: port: Console MIDI OUT 12 [=> CLASSIC Lighted Rockers 12-016], channel (1-16): 12, controller (0-127): 080, value (0-127): 016. (Raw hex bytes: BB 50 10.)



2023-08-15-15-44-37: INF:2569 Diag: IN: mouse button pressed (virtual console coordinates): x: 0469, y: 0126, tab number (1-16): 02.
2023-08-15-15-44-37: INF:2565 Diag: OUT: MIDI control change: port: Console MIDI OUT 12 [=> CLASSIC Lighted Rockers 12-016], channel (1-16): 12, controller (0-127): 081, value (0-127): 016. (Raw hex bytes: BB 51 10.)
2023-08-15-15-44-37: INF:2570 Diag: IN: mouse button released (virtual console coordinates): x: 0469, y: 0126, tab number (1-16): 02.

2023-08-15-15-44-38: INF:2569 Diag: IN: mouse button pressed (virtual console coordinates): x: 0469, y: 0126, tab number (1-16): 02.
2023-08-15-15-44-38: INF:2565 Diag: OUT: MIDI control change: port: Console MIDI OUT 12 [=> CLASSIC Lighted Rockers 12-016], channel (1-16): 12, controller (0-127): 080, value (0-127): 016. (Raw hex bytes: BB 50 10.)
2023-08-15-15-44-38: INF:2570 Diag: IN: mouse button released (virtual console coordinates): x: 0469, y: 0126, tab number (1-16): 02.
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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostWed Aug 16, 2023 5:28 am

Hello Scott,

Based on your log excerpt, Hauptwerk is sending the expected MIDI output given that the virtual stop was auto-detected with "Send matching MIDI output". I don't know why your LRTs aren't responding to that, or whether those are the MIDI messages that the LRTs are designed to receive, or whether any other steps may be necessary within their hardware to get them to respond to those MIDI messages.

Unless any other LRT users on this forum can advise, I think you really need to contact Classic MIDI Works. They would know how their hardware is meant to set up, so should be able to help you with it. E.g. send them the MIDI-logged excerpt that you had pasted in your previous reply and explain that you've auto-detected an LRT to a St. Anne's stop, with the "Send matching MIDI output" option ticked and the corresponding MIDI OUT port selected.

Sorry I can't be of more help.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Classic MIDI Organ Works Illuminated Rocker Tabs

PostWed Aug 16, 2023 8:24 am

Martin,

Thanks for the guidance you could provide.

I sent in a message with the MIDI info I put on here and hopefully will hear back from them soon.

If anyone else has had this problem and gotten it to work, I would appreciate your guidance!

Scott
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