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Rodgers expression pedals not working/Hauptwerk VST Link

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Rodgers expression pedals not working/Hauptwerk VST Link

Postby Lougheed » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:48 am

I've configured Cubase/Hauptwerk VST Link following the instructions in the "Hauptwerk AU/VST Plug-in Tutorial" PDF.

I'm using VST in Cubase 9 Pro. (Moved the dongle from my studio computer for testing on the Hauptwerk computer, but will end up getting Cubase Elements 9 which I think will be sufficient for recording/playback/adding room correction profile/adding reverb).

Registration changes (using pistons) and note on/off working with Cubase recording/ playback, but not the Swell and Choir expression pedals.

(The expression pedals work with the Hauptwerk organs, i.e. they change the vol/timbre as I'm playing, but Cubase not recording the movements).

Thoughts?
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Re: Rodgers expression pedals not working/Hauptwerk VST Link

Postby mdyde » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:24 am

Hello Lawrence,

Please see whether you have the same issue with the swell pedal in St. Anne's, then create and send us a diagnostic file (either via email or: http://www.hauptwerk.com/forms/support/ ) so that I can have a look at your settings. Thanks.
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Re: Rodgers expression pedals not working/Hauptwerk VST Link

Postby Lougheed » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:17 am

I've tested with St. Anne's swell pedal, and it works.

Diagnostic file sent.
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Re: Rodgers expression pedals not working/Hauptwerk VST Link

Postby Lougheed » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:21 am

Issue I've been having is with Sonus A-S. (Haven't tried any other organs, apart from St. Anne's). The A-S is my go-to organ at the moment.
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Re: Rodgers expression pedals not working/Hauptwerk VST Link

Postby mdyde » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:22 am

Thanks, Lawrence, and also for the diagnostic file that I see you've just sent.

Just to make sure I look at the right one's settings (which might take a while to set up, if it's a big one), which organ specifically is it that you're having problems with?
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Re: Rodgers expression pedals not working/Hauptwerk VST Link

Postby mdyde » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:27 am

P.S. Thanks for the clarification. (I see we both replied at the same time.)

I don't currently have that particular sample set, so I'll might need to see whether Jiri could supply me with a copy, and it might take a day or two to download (my Internet connection isn't especially fast).

In the meantime, with that organ loaded, would you mind using 'Recording | View MIDI recorder/player ... implementation' then emailing the resulting file (from [Hauptwerk]/HauptwerkInternalWorkingFiles/GeneratedDocumentation/ ) to us?
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Re: Rodgers expression pedals not working/Hauptwerk VST Link

Postby mdyde » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:13 pm

Hello Lawrence,

Thanks for the file and email (copied here to keep the discussion in one place):

Lougheed wrote:Hi Martin,

I’ve loaded/tested some other organs:

These all work properly:

Hereford Cathedral Mini Set Unlicensed
Armley-Schulze Evaluation Multi Channel
Luins_surround
Melcer Chamber Music Hall (requires wind model)
Salisbury-Willis Trial

These do not work properly:

Oakland, Aeolian Skinner, Op 1301 - Extension
Portland, Reuter, Op 227
Rosales, AGO (extension of Portland, Rosales Op 11

So, clearly the issue seems to be with Sonus Pardisi instruments.


I can see the problem from the Oakland Skinner MIDI implementation file: Jiri hasn't assigned role codes to the virtual expression pedal controls in the organ definition, so Hauptwerk will resort to using MIDI sys-ex (instead of its preferred MIDI control changes or NRPNs) for them for its MIDI recorder/player/sequencer implementation. Many MIDI sequencers (including Cubase) don't support MIDI sys-ex message output from VST plug-ins, so although Hauptwerk will send messages from those virtual controls, Cubase will ignore them.

Presumably the same applies to the other Sonus Paradisi sample sets. I'll email Jiri and explain what needs to be corrected in the organ definitions, so that perhaps future versions of those organ definitions might be fixed accordingly in the longer-term.

In the meantime, do you actually need to record individual Rodgers draw-knob changes in Cubase, or are you controlling registration only from its MIDI pistons? (The latter would mean that everything could be set up in a far simpler way, which would also completely avoid the issue.)
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Re: Rodgers expression pedals not working/Hauptwerk VST Link

Postby Lougheed » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:26 pm

mdyde wrote:In the meantime, do you actually need to record individual Rodgers draw-knob changes in Cubase, or are you controlling registration only from its MIDI pistons? (The latter would mean that everything could be set up in a far simpler way, which would also completely avoid the issue.)


Thanks, Martin.

I don't need to control individual Rodgers draw-knob changes in Cubase.

I'm selecting stops via the touch screens, saving to a piston, and then using the physical pistons on the Rodgers to make registration changes whilst recording.

(It would be ideal to have individual stops turn on/off directly from the touch screens, for hand registration, but I believe that's not possible at this point in time).

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Re: Rodgers expression pedals not working/Hauptwerk VST Link

Postby mdyde » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:44 pm

Thanks, Lawrence.

Lougheed wrote:I don't need to control individual Rodgers draw-knob changes in Cubase.

I'm selecting stops via the touch screens, saving to a piston, and then using the physical pistons on the Rodgers to make registration changes whilst regarding.


In that case, I'd definitely recommend instead setting Hauptwerk up with Cubase in the way covered in the 'Composing pieces off-line from a MIDI sequencer configured conventionally (Hauptwerk as a ‘slave’ MIDI device)' sub-section of the Hauptwerk user guide (pages 189-194 in the current v4.2.1 version), i.e. with MIDI from the Rodgers going directly into Cubase (rather than via Hauptwerk).

In particular, select the 'Hauptwerk AU/VST Link' entry selected specifically in the *left-hand* ('Console MIDI IN') column on Hauptwerk's 'General settings | MIDI ports | MIDI IN ports' screen tab, with no other entries ticked at all on that screen tab (in either column), and also with no entries ticked at all on the 'MIDI OUT ports' tab. Then enable the MIDI IN port to which your Rodgers is connected within Cubase. You can then right-click on the virtual keyboards, pistons and expression pedals, to auto-detect them (or to configure their MIDI settings manually).

Lougheed wrote:(It would be ideal to have individual stops turn on/off directly from the touch screens, for hand registration, but I believe that's not possible at this point in time).


That is technically possible if configured in the way that you have it now, but due to the extra complexity (and the compatibility issue with the Sonus Paradisi virtual expression pedals), I would instead recommend configuring it as above.
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Re: Rodgers expression pedals not working/Hauptwerk VST Link

Postby Lougheed » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:13 pm

Lougheed wrote:(It would be ideal to have individual stops turn on/off directly from the touch screens, for hand registration, but I believe that's not possible at this point in time).


mdyde wrote:That is technically possible if configured in the way that you have it now, but due to the extra complexity (and the compatibility issue with the Sonus Paradisi virtual expression pedals), I would instead recommend configuring it as above.


Are you saying that there is way that I could use the Rodgers pistons + touchscreen presses? That would be ideal! I often press a piston and then add and subtract stops by hand. This is really what I want to be able to do.

The remaining issue would then be up to Jiri to "assign role codes to the virtual expression pedal controls in the organ definition" file.

I can't be the only one experiencing this issue.
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Re: Rodgers expression pedals not working/Hauptwerk VST Link

Postby mdyde » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:09 am

Hello Lawrence,

If used in the way that you currently have it configured, then yes -- you should find that Rodgers piston presses, as well as touch-screen presses, will indeed be recorded and played back via Cubase. However, similarly it depends upon appropriate codes having been assigned within the organ definitions for the virtual stop switches, so it's probably advisable to test. (St. Anne's will certainly record and play back touch-screen stop changes.)

Lougheed wrote:The remaining issue would then be up to Jiri to "assign role codes to the virtual expression pedal controls in the organ definition" file.

I can't be the only one experiencing this issue.


I wrote to Jiri with the details anyway.

It would actually be technically possible to work around the issue by using two virtual MIDI cables (one Hauptwerk Sequencer MIDI OUT->Cubase, and another Cubase->Hauptwerk Sequencer MIDI IN) in place of the Hauptwerk VST Link on the Hauptwerk MIDI IN ports and MIDI OUT ports screens (with the other ends enabled and routed to/from the tracks appropriately in Cubase. I will email you a tutorial that describes how to do that. However, you would need to be extremely careful to configure it properly, otherwise you could easily get MIDI feedback loops and resulting crashes/freezes or strange behaviour.

Also, with those Sonus Paradisi organ definitions as they are currently, it would mean that MIDI sys-ex messages would be recorded in Cubase when you moved the expression pedals, which would be very difficult for you to edit meaningfully (compared to MIDI control changes or NRPNs, which Hauptwerk would use in preference, were appropriate codes assigned in the organ definitions).

You could perhaps try contacting Jiri to see whether/when he expects to patch those organ definitions, then decide accordingly. In the meantime, the simplest option might be to stick to using it as you have it configured now and avoid using those particular sample sets for recording for now. Alternatively/additionally, you could use Hauptwerk's built-in MIDI recorder to actually record piece from those particular sample sets, then import the resulting MIDI files into Cubase (complete with MIDI sys-ex messages for the expression pedals, again bearing in mind that MIDI sys-ex messages aren't usually convenient to edit meaningfully en masse).
Best regards,
Martin.

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