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Is it ok to upgrade to High Sierra?

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Is it ok to upgrade to High Sierra?

Postby va3ets » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:58 pm

Hi all, for the last day or so, my iMac which I have Hauptwerk installed on has been prompting me to do the update to mac OS 10.13 High Sierra. Especially with the advent of Apple's new file system (APFS,) I didn't want to do the update right away on this machine. Just wanted to come in here first, and see if anybody has updated to High Sierra on their Macs running HW, before hitting the install button. Thanks, Dan.
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Re: Is it ok to upgrade to High Sierra?

Postby larason2 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:31 pm

I upgraded to High Sierra soon after the update was available. No problems so far running Hauptwerk.

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Re: Is it ok to upgrade to High Sierra?

Postby va3ets » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:25 am

Ok Cool, thanks. will go ahead and do the upgrade then. Just wanted to make sure that Hauptwerk is running fine on High Sierra before going ahead with it. .
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Re: Is it ok to upgrade to High Sierra?

Postby mdyde » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:17 am

Hello Dan,

Yes -- we do support macOS High Sierra. Please see this announcement for the full details, as well as some minor things to be aware of with it:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16414
Best regards,
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Re: Is it ok to upgrade to High Sierra?

Postby Fokko » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:16 am

For reasons I had to upgrade to High Sierra as well (v 10.13.1) but I have to report some annoying problems unfortunatetly.

1. After upgrading to High Sierra the RME UCX audiointerface will not be recognized. It is needed to download and update RME as well.

2. At first sight High Sierra will process everyting as expected. But using Hauptwerk I noticed sudden audioglitches even when playing very quiet; watching the CPU indicator from Hauptwerk it even will hit in red when I do not play at all and then it will go back to normal behaviour. It happens unpredictable. Note: this has nothing to do with sampleset settings as polyphony. It seems the CPU now spikes for OS reasons I cannot define.
Searching on the internet I am reading more notifications about glitches (not Hauptwerk related) in Pro Tools, and graphic cards.

I first have done an update. Due to the problems I described then I did a format and clean install as well (and moving back personal files and apps from time machine). But still the glitches there are. :(

Any help will be appreciated :wink:

And: be warned to upgrade to High Sierra!
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Re: Is it ok to upgrade to High Sierra?

Postby mdyde » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:07 am

Hello Fokko,

Thanks for the update.

Fokko wrote:1. After upgrading to High Sierra the RME UCX audiointerface will not be recognized. It is needed to download and update RME as well.


That isn't a problem per-se, in that it would be expected that updated drivers might be needed for some or all hardware devices when upgrading an operating system version. RME are very good at providing driver updates (even for their older products).

Fokko wrote:2. At first sight High Sierra will process everyting as expected. But using Hauptwerk I noticed sudden audioglitches even when playing very quiet; watching the CPU indicator from Hauptwerk it even will hit in red when I do not play at all and then it will go back to normal behaviour. It happens unpredictable. Note: this has nothing to do with sampleset settings as polyphony. It seems the CPU now spikes for OS reasons I cannot define.
Searching on the internet I am reading more notifications about glitches (not Hauptwerk related) in Pro Tools, and graphic cards.

I first have done an update. Due to the problems I described then I did a format and clean install as well (and moving back personal files and apps from time machine). But still the glitches there are.


I didn't find any glitch problems in my testing with High Sierra. One person did report to us that High Sierra needed slightly more memory for itself on his 4 GB Mac (which isn't wholly surprising, since new versions of operating systems tend to be larger than older ones), so he needed to load slightly less data in Hauptwerk otherwise he had performance problems. However, doing so solved his issue.

Note also that an operating system might possibly not perform optimally for a day or so after it's been installed or upgraded, since it might be performing background post-installation/upgrade maintenance tasks.

Do you mean that, even a few hours after installing/upgrading High Sierra, you get occasional spikes into the yellow/red in Hauptwerk's audio-CPU meter even with St. Anne's (being a small sample set) and even with no pipes sounding, and with no other software apart from Hauptwerk running?

If so, do you see the same issue if you select the Mac's built-in audio output in Hauptwerk, instead of your RME? (You could use a 'spare' 'Hauptwerk (alt config N)' configuration to test that, if you didn't want to change your main configuration's settings.)

Fokko wrote:I did a format and clean install as well (and moving back personal files and apps from time machine)


Do you mean that you used the option in the macOS installer to restore your settings/apps/files/etc. from a Time Machine backup? If so, that wouldn't be the same thing as doing a truly clean install. On any new operating system version my advice would always to install it absolutely clean, then install all of the necessary software and drivers (all at their latest versions, checking on their makers' websites) from scratch. That way you don't risk carrying over any old components from your previous operating system installation.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Is it ok to upgrade to High Sierra?

Postby Fokko » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:22 am

mdyde wrote:
Fokko wrote:1. After upgrading to High Sierra the RME UCX audiointerface will not be recognized. It is needed to download and update RME as well.


That isn't a problem per-se, in that it would be expected that updated drivers might be needed for some or all hardware devices when upgrading an operating system version. RME are very good at providing driver updates (even for their older products).


Thank you Martin for the very quick respons.
You are right, it is not a strange thing RME UCX needs an update when the OS changes.

mdyde wrote:I didn't find any glitch problems in my testing with High Sierra. One person did report to us that High Sierra needed slightly more memory for itself on his 4 GB Mac (which isn't wholly surprising, since new versions of operating systems tend to be larger than older ones), so he needed to load slightly less data in Hauptwerk otherwise he had performance problems. However, doing so solved his issue.


My MacPro 2010 system has plenty of RAM with 96GB. So that is not an issue I think.

mdyde wrote:Note also that an operating system might possibly not perform optimally for a day or so after it's been installed or upgraded, since it might be performing background post-installation/upgrade maintenance tasks.


Okay, I understand. I will give it some time and we will see.

mdyde wrote:Do you mean that, even a few hours after installing/upgrading High Sierra, you get occasional spikes into the yellow/red in Hauptwerk's audio-CPU meter even with St. Anne's (being a small sample set) and even with no pipes sounding, and with no other software apart from Hauptwerk running?


Yes, I tried different samplesets. Normally I am playing rather big samplesets like Zwolle or Rotterdam. But this CPU behaviour appears also with smaller sets loaded.
I am currently loading the St. Anne's also to check wether the CPU spike appaers.

mdyde wrote:If so, do you see the same issue if you select the Mac's built-in audio output in Hauptwerk, instead of your RME? (You could use a 'spare' 'Hauptwerk (alt config N)' configuration to test that, if you didn't want to change your main configuration's settings.)


I will look into that and let you know.

Fokko wrote:I did a format and clean install as well (and moving back personal files and apps from time machine)


mdyde wrote:Do you mean that you used the option in the macOS installer to restore your settings/apps/files/etc. from a Time Machine backup? If so, that wouldn't be the same thing as doing a truly clean install. On any new operating system version my advice would always to install it absolutely clean, then install all of the necessary software and drivers (all at their latest versions, checking on their makers' websites) from scratch. That way you don't risk carrying over any old components from your previous operating system installation.


Yesterday I did a clean install of the OS High Sierra itself with a bootable USB stick. Before that I did format the original boot disk (pci ssd).
After the installing of the OS complete, yes, I did a restore of settings/apps and all kind of personal files from a Time Machine Backup.
So I guess there is probably something wrong within these restore?
It would be very time consuming to collect and reinstall al kind of apps I fear. :?

Dear Martin, thank you so far. I first will look into the behaviour of St. Anne's and also the Mac built in audio output.
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Re: Is it ok to upgrade to High Sierra?

Postby mdyde » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:32 am

Thanks, Fokko.

Fokko wrote:Yesterday I did a clean install of the OS High Sierra itself with a bootable USB stick. Before that I did format the original boot disk (pci ssd).
After the installing of the OS complete, yes, I did a restore of settings/apps and all kind of personal files from a Time Machine Backup.
So I guess there is probably something wrong within these restore?
It would be very time consuming to collect and reinstall al kind of apps I fear. :?


Yes -- if the issue also occurs with the built-in audio output, then my first suspicion would be that it's related to something in the settings/apps you restored. In that case, an option might be to try a 100% clean installation on a separate partition on your drive, to verify whether that is indeed the case.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Is it ok to upgrade to High Sierra?

Postby Fokko » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:02 am

mdyde wrote:Thanks, Fokko.

Fokko wrote:Yesterday I did a clean install of the OS High Sierra itself with a bootable USB stick. Before that I did format the original boot disk (pci ssd).
After the installing of the OS complete, yes, I did a restore of settings/apps and all kind of personal files from a Time Machine Backup.
So I guess there is probably something wrong within these restore?
It would be very time consuming to collect and reinstall al kind of apps I fear. :?


Yes -- if the issue also occurs with the built-in audio output, then my first suspicion would be that it's related to something in the settings/apps you restored. In that case, an option might be to try a 100% clean installation on a separate partition on your drive, to verify whether that is indeed the case.


I did some tests in an alternative Hauptwerk config with the built-in audio output. The results are OK. No PCU spikes wether using St. Anne's or a big sampleset like Rotterdam Main.

Still the issue remains in the main config with RME audio output. In the very past I configured Hauptwerk as a VST with Reaper in a common surround setup. Maybe the cpu spike is specificly related to this part of settings I have to revisit and correct somewhere (?).
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Re: Is it ok to upgrade to High Sierra?

Postby Fokko » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:04 am

I think I found it :)

Revisiting the reaper preferences it appears the Adio/device requested buffersize setting is wrong with a value of 200. I have set it back to default value of 1024. PCU doesnot spikes anymore.

Probably I have damaged the settings by my self a while ago. Why 200? I do not know. Possibly due to the buffering render ahead value is 200 by default too. But I really do not know for sure.

Well, I give it some time to play and test again.

Thanks, Fokko
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Re: Is it ok to upgrade to High Sierra?

Postby mdyde » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:26 am

Hello Fokko,

Thanks for the updates, and glad to hear you have it all working well again now.
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Re: Is it ok to upgrade to High Sierra?

Postby Fokko » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 am

Fokko wrote:Revisiting the reaper preferences it appears the Adio/device requested buffersize setting is wrong with a value of 200. I have set it back to default value of 1024. PCU doesnot spikes anymore.

---

Well, I give it some time to play and test again.


Honestly, it seems to me there are still CPU spikes but not that very extreme the CPU goes into red anymore. Now it peaks at some time suddenly in the middle of green indicators, even if I am not playing for a while. I guess this has to do with the OS processes running in the background.
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Re: Is it ok to upgrade to High Sierra?

Postby mdyde » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:28 pm

Hello Fokko,

If you're using a VST/AU host (e.g. Reaper) the performance will never be quite as good as using Hauptwerk stand-alone, since VST/AU hosts are primarily designed for running lots of plug-ins and instruments, rather than devoting all of the computer's resources to one. Also, reverb/convolution plug-ins will themselves add a significant amount of processing overheads.
Best regards,
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