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Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

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Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby johannusfan » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:29 am

I was totally happy with HW3 but wanted to change the PC to Win10. Big mistake. Now, where previously the organ music was smooth, realistic, and enjoyable, it now sounds like a slow Leslie with certain stop settings. It is just horrid. It is like a cheap way to "enhance" the spaciousness of the music. It reminds me of the old Allen organs that move the speakers around to create "awesome" sound (yeah, right!).

The big question - is it a good idea to just revert to HW3? Very disappointed. Is this new sound enhancement that can be deactivated?

Thanks, folks.
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Re: Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby telemanr » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:35 am

What you are describing doesn’t sound like HW4 is the culprit. It sounds like Win 10 is doing disk activity during the audio output.
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Re: Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby Arp » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:35 am

Did you upgrade the sound card driver?
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Re: Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby johannusfan » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:22 am

Both comments are relevant. I am familiar with disk causing sound chopping. No, this is a curious, very consistent and predictable sound issue. Like I mentioned - the period of the loops are like the Leslie speaker, but subtle.

Yes, I installed an audiophile sound card, the old one is not 10 compatible. Some stops are clean. Issues are most prominent with 4' and 8'. Especially when these two are mixed.
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Re: Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby jkinkennon » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:51 pm

Neither HW4 or Win 10 creates the kind of chorusing sound that you describe. I hope your "audiophile sound card" is an external USB audio interface that is set up for ASIO and that you are not using ASIO4All.

Without a better description of your setup I'm reluctant to suggest what you might have done wrong. Depending on the sample set in use you might experiment with turning off or turning down the wind model, the random air-flow or detuning just to eliminate those possibilities. There isn't some secret algorythm creating the sound you describe.

EDIT: Ceiling fans can generate a light chorus effect. Piano tuners know how disruptive they can be.
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Re: Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby B. Milan » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:19 pm

You may be referring to the wind supply model, which you wouldn't have had in HW3. Maybe you're using a sample set that doesn't have it configured properly, or maybe had turned its effect up a lot in the past with HW3 when you wouldn't have been able to hear it and now it is showing in HW4 since the wind model is available for Advanced Edition users..

Please check that the wind supply model is set to 100% first off, then if you don't like that you can decrease the effect further by reducing the percentage. This is under the Organ settings | Organ preferences | Wind supply model screen.

Please let us know if that helps.
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Re: Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby johannusfan » Wed May 02, 2018 7:51 pm

Again, the system was totally stable and sounded fine until upgrading to HW4. I'm using the Sound Blaster Z card with current drivers. I played with the wind; even turned the model off - nada. I use headphones (I'm a piano tech and always have to kill the ceiling fans!!). I posted a complete system configuration in the forum for speeding up your organ loads. It is a very high-end PC!

Is the upgrade to HW4 one-way? Can I revert to 3?

Thanks, folks. I'll keep experimenting, as this is driving me nuts...

Update - forget the question about going backward to 3. Won't work with W10.
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Re: Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby 1961TC4ME » Thu May 03, 2018 11:02 am

I started with version 3, had it for a good 5+ years and then went to version 4 when it was released. If anything, although slight, there was an improvement in the sound and realism with version 4, and as I recall at the time Martin had stated this would be the case and I noticed it over version 3.

Something else is amiss here and unless I just didn't see it, there has been no mention thus far as to what set or sets you are using and if one or all are displaying the issue you describe. Could provide a clue? What sets are you using?

Marc
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Re: Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby johannusfan » Thu May 03, 2018 2:00 pm

Good question. I have many organ samples. StAnnesMoseley (of course), Mt. Carmel Skinner, Haverville ext., Rotterdam-Laurenskerk.

I am going to remove the SB sound card and try an experiment using the on-board sound. If the problem goes away suddenly, I have struck pay-dirt! My daughter is a movie editor and suddenly we heard there was unwanted reverb in the track. She changed nothing. Turned out the rather sophisticated sound card options decided reverb was awesome - we turned it off and all was fine.
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Re: Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby 1961TC4ME » Thu May 03, 2018 2:17 pm

I used a couple of different Soundblaster audio interfaces way back in the day. My honest opinion is they are not up to snuff for Hauptwerk use, and yes are very finicky and seem to have a mind all their own. Non ASIO was another issue with them. You could have a sample rate issue (and the Soundblaster changing the rate on its own) between the card and the sets you are using from the sound of things and although no fault of v4, could be further exaggerated by v4. Get a good ASIO audio interface and I'd say your issues will be no longer.

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Re: Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby johannusfan » Thu May 03, 2018 5:27 pm

Okay - the hook is well set in my cheek! I am not that well versed with music samplers with sound boards. Is there a newer board that works with W10 with ideal compatibility for HW? I don't want to just begin buying lots of hardware and doing the "by guess and by golly" analysis... Recommendations to start??

Thanks!
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Re: Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby organsRgreat » Thu May 03, 2018 5:43 pm

Sound cards: MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn) (a very wide range - look on their site - drivers can be fussy but sound is excellent); Focusrite; RME (expensive but very good). If you are likely to want a lot of channels in due course an ADAT link can connect to another card and give you a further 8 outputs. Cymatic are inexpensive but should sound fine - the specifications of many sound cards are probably beyond what is required for Hauptwerk. Think about what type of connection you want - Martin Dyde (if I've understood him correctly) considers USB perfectly adequate, though there are newer, faster types of interface. Quite often there are reviews on line - well worth reading. Just a few ideas to get you started.
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Re: Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby magnaton » Thu May 03, 2018 6:30 pm

Review page 13 of the HW 4.2.1 user guide on Audio Interfaces. You will have a better HW experience with a studio quality or 'pro-sumer' audio interface as mentioned in the previous post. Being a separate unit with a USB (or Firewire or Thunderbolt) connection makes it easy to work with, trouble shoot, exchange, etc. vs a PCI card.

Hauptwerk sample sets, especially the paid sets you have, are high bit, better than CD quality recordings. The Sound Blaster card and a especially a computer's on board sound chip can easily be over tasked with the polyphony and latency demands of Hauptwerk.

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Re: Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby johannusfan » Thu May 03, 2018 11:36 pm

Thanks guys. Sitting here considering all the excellent feedback, I ordered a USB external box. If this fixes it, I know for sure what's going on. I'll keep you up-to-date.
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Re: Organ Sound Degredation After HW4 Upgrade

Postby johannusfan » Fri May 11, 2018 3:37 pm

I purchased a Tascam US-1x2 USB interface. WOW! She's back better than ever. So that was the problem - the sound board(s). Thank you soooo much team for your helping out here. Having the setup work well is so very important to me. I love playing, and having it sound awesome again is such a relief.

This site is such a great help. Sometimes "small" stuff can really put a wrecking ball to how well things work.

Bless you all!! ((~8

--Ron
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