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Paramount Organ Works and HW V

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tocata

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Paramount Organ Works and HW V

PostMon Dec 09, 2019 1:30 pm

Hi Hauptwerkers,

New to the forum, HW 4 Free Edition Paramount 3/10 user.

I for one was positively surprised by the announcement of HW 5 and its new scheme. For some pocket change monthly, I will be able to get hands on Hauptwerk that offers the best from Basic and Advanced in the new Lite package: Basic‘s more generous polyphony when compared to Free edition and Advanced‘s unlimited memory for sample sets. Adding reverb has never been an issue, so that feature of the new Advanced version is not needed by me. Lite, for now, is the way to go.

So far so good.

Now, in a stroke of luck, I was able to already download and license HW V Lite (somebody had posted a link to their new web page and I just went ahead and downloaded it when it was available; iLok Cloud working without problem, and yes, I paid the $9.99 for one month).

Several observations:

1) the trial loaded only one time and worked for one session.. Then HW kept complaining it needed to be activated. That’s a potential issue if the trial doesn’t do what has been promised. iLok showed the trial license to be active. So, I went ahead and paid for a regular license just to see how/if it all worked via iLok Cloud).

2) I installed from scratch, both HW V and the free Paramount 3/10. HW V will always complain that it can’t install the package due to perhaps a license missing.

Which leads me to my main concern: checking Paramount OW’s site, there isn’t even a mention of HW 5. I was eager to upgrade to their 3/20 perhaps. I understand that V ain’t official yet and Milan’s store remains closed for now, but Pipeloops as well as others seem to be proactive following the buzz of the new web page launch.

I also have run into problems with some free organs that I’m not sure how far this concerns the version 5 or other factors (organ plays but HW freezes and finally crashes when playing fast and with high polyphony).

Regards
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mdyde

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Re: Paramount Organ Works and HW V

PostMon Dec 09, 2019 2:13 pm

Hello tocata,

[Topic moved here.]

Thanks very much for the enthusiasm, and for buying the Lite Edition (even if it wasn't supposed to have been made available quite yet!).

tocata wrote:1) the trial loaded only one time and worked for one session.. Then HW kept complaining it needed to be activated. That’s a potential issue if the trial doesn’t do what has been promised. iLok showed the trial license to be active. So, I went ahead and paid for a regular license just to see how/if it all worked via iLok Cloud).


Once you've started a trial, upon subsequent Hauptwerk launches, the iLok software will prompt you with an option to enter an activation code for a full (non-trial) licence. However, somewhere on that screen there is a button to continue in trial mode; it doesn't actually require you to enter an activation code. (I can't remember the name of the button off-hand, since any given iLok account can only evaluate any given product once, and it was some months since I tested it myself -- sorry. However, it definitely is there somewhere.)

tocata wrote:2) I installed from scratch, both HW V and the free Paramount 3/10. HW V will always complain that it can’t install the package due to perhaps a license missing.

Which leads me to my main concern: checking Paramount OW’s site, there isn’t even a mention of HW 5. I was eager to upgrade to their 3/20 perhaps. I understand that V ain’t official yet and Milan’s store remains closed for now, but Pipeloops as well as others seem to be proactive following the buzz of the new web page launch.


The Paramount 310 is a copy-protected sample set, so it's expected and correct that you can't install its v4 version in v5. I know that v5 version of all of the Paramount organs are fully ready and uploaded for release, but I'm not sure what the arrangement is for downloading them. I imagine the download links will be made available as soon as v5 is fully released publicly.

tocata wrote:I also have run into problems with some free organs that I’m not sure how far this concerns the version 5 or other factors (organ plays but HW freezes and finally crashes when playing fast and with high polyphony).


Are you able to reproduce that with the St. Anne's organ included in Hauptwerk? All of the main sample set producers, plus a selection of beta testers, have had v5 beta versions since the start of 2019 and have tested most sample sets thoroughly with v5. (However, there might be a few free sample sets from other producers that haven't yet been tested with it.)

Is your polyphony limit setting in Hauptwerk set to the maximum allowed by the Lite Edition (1024)? Is the computer's RAM nearly filled when the problem occurs?
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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Re: Paramount Organ Works and HW V

PostMon Dec 09, 2019 3:28 pm

Hi Martin,

Thanks for moving the post and responding to it. Was able to reproduce the freeze and subsequent crash with the Mosley organ under full load (tutti)

Not sure how to attach images. All indicator bars remain green (audio, poly, RAM).

Thought I could press the panic button fo stuck midi (engine menu), but that led to HW crashing actually.


Makes sense that the free Paramount is encrypted for HW 4 since it’s basically the 3/20 with some ranks disabled.

I was able to locate the trial button in my many attempts during the weekend, alas no success which made me subscribe to a license.
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mdyde

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Re: Paramount Organ Works and HW V

PostMon Dec 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Thanks, tocata.

Could you send us a diagnostic file (Help | Create a diagnostic file')? I'm not actually certain yet how that will normally be handled on the new website, but in the meantime please just email it to our info [at] milandigitalaudio.com email address, and Brett or Michelle can pass it on to me.

tocata wrote:as able to reproduce the freeze and subsequent crash with the Mosley organ under full load (tutti)

Not sure how to attach images. All indicator bars remain green (audio, poly, RAM).


Please also confirm:

- That the polyphony limit setting was set to 1024.

- That it occurred when massively stressing polyphony (e.g. by drawing all stops and couplers and playing huge chords repeatedly and rapidly).

- That the polyphony indicator (on the 'Audio, MIDI and Performance' large control panel) was definitely still green, even though a huge polyphony was being used.

- Whether you ever experienced similar freezes crashes with v4 on the same computer.

Many thanks.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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Re: Paramount Organ Works and HW V

PostMon Dec 09, 2019 4:28 pm

Martin,

Polyphony setting seems to have done the trick for now. It was set to 256 still instead of 1024. Playing fine now without stressing the system at all.


But should HW have crashed? Wouldn’t it have just dropped notes? Never had a crash under 4 Free edition
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mdyde

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Re: Paramount Organ Works and HW V

PostTue Dec 10, 2019 8:09 am

Hello tocata,

Thanks for the update. It certainly shouldn't freeze or crash, even if the polyphony is massively overloaded relative to the polyphony limit setting. That isn't something that I've seen during development or testing, or that any beta testers have reported, but I'll certainly look into it properly, and if there does turn out to be a bug there then I'll make sure it's addressed as a matter of priority (almost certainly for the next patch version, i.e. v5.0.1).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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Re: Paramount Organ Works and HW V

PostTue Dec 10, 2019 6:47 pm

Where do I look for the crash report and which email is the right one to send it thru?
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mdyde

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Re: Paramount Organ Works and HW V

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 5:16 am

Thanks, tocata.

No need to bother with creating a diagnostic file (which, for reference, would normally be done using 'Help | Create a diagnostic file') at the moment. I'll investigate it here myself based on your description to see whether I can reproduce it, and let you know if I can't. It might be a small number of weeks before I can look into it properly, due to v5 just having been released, but since you have it working properly with the polyphony limit set to 1024, hopefully that can be excused.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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Re: Paramount Organ Works and HW V

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 7:50 am

Hi Martin,

I reproduced the freeze and crash now using a different disposition with polyphony set to 1024.

What I had done when using the other sample sets that froze initially was to set polyphony to 1024 and double the midi buffer.

The new disposition is running polyphony at 1024, but I haven’t touched the midi buffer which should be at 512KB.


Right now I’m suspecting that midi buffer to be the culprit.
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Re: Paramount Organ Works and HW V

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 8:46 am

Thanks, tocata.

I'll investigate absolutely as soon as I can (but it might be a week or two, since it's extremely busy right now, straight after the release.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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Re: Paramount Organ Works and HW V

PostThu Dec 12, 2019 1:48 pm

Hello again tocata,

P.S. I can confirm that I can reproduce the issue whereby Hauptwerk v5.0.0 can freeze if you instantaneously and severely overload polyphony, relative to your current polyphony limit setting. I've logged it as a known bug here:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17970&p=135162#p135162

... and will make sure it's fixed for v5.0.0. My apologies for the bug.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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tocata

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Re: Paramount Organ Works and HW V

PostThu Dec 19, 2019 12:42 pm

Martin,

from my observation, can it be that HW reduces the polyphony settings I dialed in arbitrarily?

I could swear that I had saved some of my organs with 1024 poly but observed that HW reduced it permanently to be around 832 or so. Of course, I can always move the slider up again, but it feels like a possible bug?
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Re: Paramount Organ Works and HW V

PostThu Dec 19, 2019 12:56 pm

Hello tocata,

Are you sure you're looking at the same organs that you adjusted previously? The polyphony limit setting is organ-specific, so if you change it for one organ, it won't affect others. Also, when you first load a 'new' organ, Hauptwerk will set the polyphony limit setting for that particular organ to an estimated default value (between 256 and 1024, for the Lite Edition), but it won't affect other organs.

For example, if you load St. Anne's, set the polyphony limit setting to 1024, then re-load the sample set, and/or re-launch Hauptwerk then re-load it, does it stay set to 1024? It should.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]

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