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Fatal error: HW V will not start

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adrianw

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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 11:15 am

It seems that the installer tries to run the update without root/admin rights, and that simply won't work over an existing v4 installation.

I don't recall ever changing anything within the Hauptwerk app bundles, so this might not be an isolated incident, but a much larger problem for anyone trying to update an existing v4 installation. I can fix this myself, but I suspect most Hauptwerk users can not...


Confirmed - your analysis is spot on. If I had thought this through I could have saved myself a huge amount of work reloading. Thank you!
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heilei

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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 11:47 am

No problem, glad I could help. Let me know if you want the complete log file or any other test material.

One question: I can easily restore my v4 installation, and retry the update. Do you think that merely changing those two directories’ access rights (before upgrading) would be enough? Or are there some other similar problems ahead? What’s the plan B to correct this properly? A new version of the Mac installer?

(Edit: Sorry, I thought you were part of Milan Audio’s staff, but apparently not... :) )
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adrianw

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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 11:58 am

(Edit: Sorry, I thought you were part of Milan Audio’s staff, but apparently not... :) )


No, I started this thread. But I do have the necessary skills, have confirmed from logs and permissions your diagnosis and am kicking myself since I really ought to have tracked it down myself. If I had thought it through I would have saved myself a lot of wasted time today. Does still make me wonder about the depth of testing, though.

- Adrian.
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mdyde

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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 12:24 pm

Hello hellei,

Thanks for the thorough notes.

Yes -- Hauptwerk v4 (and earlier) installers ran with administrator rights, whereas on the Mac platform that is in longer the case for v5 (which is unfortunately necessary in order for the installer software to be able to able to support recent macOS versions properly, due to changes in the way code signatures are handled for more recent macOS versions). There's nothing we can actually do about that -- I raised it extensively with the makers of the installer development software (Flexera) previously, since attempting to run the installer with administrator rights in recent versions causes other things to break, but they are adamant that it needs to be that way and they don't plan to change it.

Hence the v5 installer on the Mac does need to run without administrator rights, so you would normally need to uninstall/delete the v4 installation before installing v5 (as a 'clean' installation), which is also needed for macOS 10.15 'Catalina' compatibility anyway (due to the need to use different installation locations). (People like yourself who have the level of knowledge and skill to edit the file/folder permissions and move the necessary folders and their XML pointers manually could technically avoid it, but that isn't something that the vast majority of people could do reliably, or that we could officially support.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 1:06 pm

Martin

I am sorry, but if I understand correctly that does rather contradict what you said yesterday and emailed me. And the claim that it was extensively tested on in-place upgrades which could not possibly work

If you are (and always were) aware that the installer cannot update an existing Mac HW 4 installation should this not be clearly documented and published? Clearly I was not the only one having a lot of time wasted because of this.

- Adrian.
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mdyde

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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 1:17 pm

Hello Adrian,

My apologies for the confusion. I had actually forgotten when I wrote my reply yesterday about the administrator rights issue, and I certainly didn't mean it to be misleading. (I actually remembered in bed last night.) New installations *have* been tested extensively on both platforms (and supported OS versions), as have upgrades on supported Windows versions. Upgrades were tested previously on older macOS versions, but that wasn't possible with recent macOS versions (and the latest version of the installer) because v4's installer isn't compatible with them, so v4 couldn't be installed for testing that. My apologies again for not making that clear yesterday. (In my defence, it is rather busy right now.)

I'll post instructions in the announcements section to ensure that others are aware of the need to uninstall v4 first, even on supported macOS versions (10.13, 10.14) apart from 10.15.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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heilei

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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 1:21 pm

I’m now really confused as well.... All the documentation, forum tips etc. clearly indicate, that you can update an existing v4 installation to v5. Now it seems you can’t?

Fortunately I have up-to-date backups, and Hauptwerk is just a hobby for me, so this is no big deal. Others may not be as lucky.
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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 1:32 pm

My apologies again for not making that clear yesterday. (In my defence, it is rather busy right now.)


Nothing personal, and I entirely understand, but this is actually a huge problem for Mac HW users. It turns a slightly risky but fairly speedy business into -- as I have found today -- a really long-winded process. Not so much in getting HWV up but in restoring all the data.

I noted your advice in another thread that if in doubt one should hold off upgrading for the moment. I would echo that. I hope you will explain to Brett and Michelle the wisdom of it and persuade them to cancel the six day coupon nonsense which is so damaging MDA's reputation. There should be no rush: I wish I had let the dust settle before leaping in and might not have wasted two days.

More in sorrow than anger...

- Adrian.
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pwhodges

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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 1:43 pm

I'm confused as well. Because my Mac (currently running Mojave) can never be upgraded to Catalina, I saw no need to follow the advice to uninstall HW4 before installing HWV. The install worked perfectly and updated the HW4 installation in place as expected.

Paul
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mdyde

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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 1:47 pm

Thanks, Adrian.

heilei wrote:I’m now really confused as well.... All the documentation, forum tips etc. clearly indicate, that you can update an existing v4 installation to v5. Now it seems you can’t?

Fortunately I have up-to-date backups, and Hauptwerk is just a hobby for me, so this is no big deal. Others may not be as lucky.


Sorry again for the confusion. The instructions that I posted (uninstall v4, delete folders, install v5, restore settings, install all organs) at the end of last month in the forum announcement about upgrading from v4 to v5 for (current or future) macOS 10.15 compatibility are indeed correct ( viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17850 ), but I had forgotten that the file permissions issue may also necessitate those steps being followed on other macOS versions, even if one didn't intend to upgrade to 10.15. (I had also forgotten that at the time I replied to the thread about unofficial ways to try to avoid the need for it with 10.15: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17722&start=15#p134070 .)

I'll attempt to make those things completely clear in my announcement and that thread shortly.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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adrianw

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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 1:48 pm

The install worked perfectly and updated the HW4 installation in place as expected.
Good to hear. You got lucky. Be grateful!
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mdyde

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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 1:52 pm

pwhodges wrote:I'm confused as well. Because my Mac (currently running Mojave) can never be upgraded to Catalina, I saw no need to follow the advice to uninstall HW4 before installing HWV. The install worked perfectly and updated the HW4 installation in place as expected.


Hello Paul,

Thanks for the information. Would you mind emailing a diagnostic file ('Help | Create a diagnostic file ...') so that I can check the installer logs, to try to make sure that the installer did actually work properly, and so that I can also try to determine what the relevant differences were? I'll send you a P.M. with my direct email address.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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heilei

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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 2:08 pm

mdyde wrote:
...

Sorry again for the confusion. The instructions that I posted (uninstall v4, delete folders, install v5, restore settings, install all organs) at the end of last month in the forum announcement about upgrading from v4 to v5 for (current or future) macOS 10.15 compatibility are indeed correct ( viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17850 ), but I had forgotten that the file permissions issue may also necessitate those steps being followed on other macOS versions, even if one didn't intend to upgrade to 10.15. (I had also forgotten that at the time I replied to the thread about unofficial ways to try to avoid the need for it with 10.15: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17722&start=15#p134070 .)

I'll attempt to make those things completely clear in my announcement and that thread shortly.


Ok, thanks. As a fellow developer, I know what a P.I.T.A. Catalina can be ...

A question: if I just chmod all the relevant folders inside the current app bundles, and give write access to everybody, would that be enough (if I stubbornly want to try upgrading directly from v4 to v5) ? Or are there still some other root-owned folders lurking somewhere that the installer needs write access to?
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mdyde

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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 2:48 pm

Hello hellei,

I can't promise but as an unofficial work-around I *think* that if you manually gave full read/write permissions to everybody on the following folder (and on all sub-folders and all files within any of them):

/Applications/Hauptwerk Virtual Pipe Organ

... and did likewise for your main Hauptwerk installation folder (e.g. /Hauptwerk ), and if you also changed the owner of all of those files and folders to be your current operating system user, then re-ran the v5 installer it, that it should result in a working migrated v5 installation for pre-10.15 macOS versions. (If you subsequently upgraded to v5 then you would also need to change the installation locations to 10.15-safe ones, as described in my 10.15 instructions.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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mdyde

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Re: Fatal error: HW V will not start

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 3:01 pm

mdyde wrote:
pwhodges wrote:I'm confused as well. Because my Mac (currently running Mojave) can never be upgraded to Catalina, I saw no need to follow the advice to uninstall HW4 before installing HWV. The install worked perfectly and updated the HW4 installation in place as expected.


Hello Paul,

Thanks for the information. Would you mind emailing a diagnostic file ('Help | Create a diagnostic file ...') so that I can check the installer logs, to try to make sure that the installer did actually work properly, and so that I can also try to determine what the relevant differences were? I'll send you a P.M. with my direct email address.


Hello Paul,

Thanks very much for the diagnostic file. I can see that the installation partly succeeded, but unfortunately there were indeed some file permissions errors during installation that are likely to prevent Hauptwerk v5 from working properly in all respects (especially with iLok-licensed sample sets).

Whilst the best (and officially supported) way to fix it would be to un-install/delete/re-install (as described in my 10.15 migration instructions viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17850 ), I think that in practice you would probably also be able to fix it as follows:

- Use Finder to delete the following folder completely: '/Applications/Hauptwerk Virtual Pipe Organ'.

- Empty the trash for good measure.

- Re-run the v5.0.0 installer, select the 'Custom' option, and when prompted for each of the installation locations, in all cases specify exactly '/Hauptwerk' (within the root of the drive, so as to correspond to your current installation locations, N.B. not within your home directory which is the default for v5).

- Reboot, for good measure.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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