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My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc groups

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lemmeling

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My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc groups

PostSat Dec 14, 2019 6:56 pm

Dear people,

I've test migrated from Hauptwerk 4 to 5.
Luckily I have not yet transfered my licenses so I can still use the image I created of HW 4 to go back.
So I expected to still have my organs and my audio groups after upgrading.
I had following groups: Front, Rear, Noises, and No surround.
They were configured by the Dutch company that made my organ (I'm not going to mention their name on the forum).
However, after upgrading ALL my organs are gone (not only the onces that were incrypted).
Above that, the only audio groups I have left are Stereo and Mono.
So please shed some light on this.
The company that made my organ charge 899 euros for doing the migration, with 90 euros per sample set on top of that.
Which is insane.
I'd rather stayed with HW4, but alas the licenses are not going to last for currently available samplesets!!
I know how to install samplesets, but I do not now all this trickery of the audio configuration.
Is there a way to keep the audio-groups from 4 when upgrading to 5? And yes, I tried the restore-file.... that didn't work.
Thx in advance.
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IainStinson

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Re: My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc gr

PostSat Dec 14, 2019 9:55 pm

Sorry you are having problems.

Because the audio system has been rewritten, I don’t believe that the HW 4.2 audio settings can be sensibly carried forward to HW 5.0. You may the find the pdf linked from http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17916 of some help.

I assume by “all my organs are gone” you mean they produce no sound. The unencrypted sets and St Anne’s should work if you can confiugure the audio for HW 5.0. if you follow the steps carefully in the first multi channel audio chapter of the user guide, you should get some sounds from you system.

BTW HW 4 and the sample sets you have will continue to work, the licences will not expire. You may not be able to buy some new sample sets and existing HW 4 sample sets will only be available for purchase until April 2020. This gives you time...

Iain
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mnailor

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Re: My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc gr

PostSat Dec 14, 2019 10:51 pm

The 4.2 audio settings do work if you preserve them when upgrading to 5.0.

I upgraded and unticked (unchecked) the boxes that offered to reset audio and MIDI during install. My multichannel audio setups and per organ rank routing carried through without a single change on my part and work great. The new audio system is backward compatible, but you have to tell it not to reset.
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lemmeling

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Re: My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc gr

PostSun Dec 15, 2019 2:11 am

Dear Ian (and other)
With gone I mean literally gone from the list of installed organs.
Only the Willis organ that came with HW 5 is there.
And yes I did UNcheck those reset options.
Maybe my mistake is that I used exactly the same working directories that HW 4 used and maybe it's gotten them overwritten? Although the installer said 'moving' during the installation which took a long time.

I restored my image of the previous installation so I can try again when I have some time. Any suggestions in the meantime are welcome :oops:

Thx

Laurens
Last edited by lemmeling on Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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lemmeling

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Re: My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc gr

PostSun Dec 15, 2019 2:25 am

Iain,

I made a pdf with screenshots of my old settings in HW 4 that I would love to send to you. Is there a possibility to have them send directly via the forum?

One of the screenshots shows the groups and the channels that they are assigned to on my Babyface Pro soundcard. As I mentioned before, the company that made my organ all did this.

I have no idea how to start with this myself.
Thx for the link btw...concerning the audiosystem of HW 5.

Cheers,

Laurens
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zurek

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Re: My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc gr

PostSun Dec 15, 2019 3:17 am

Upgrading to HW5 from HW4 and having the settings preserved is possible. You only need to make the correct procedures during upgrading. An excellent overview of the process is here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18013

Read it, and do all the steps, one by one. You will notice, there is settings backup and restoration steps which are important.
You will also notice that you need to reinstall many sample sets. Perhaps it would be a good idea to reinstall all of them, to get the latest versions and a clean installation.

Further, I understand from your post, that you are trying to make your way through the new Hauptwerk 5 audio routing and mixer capabilities. Audio groups, rank routing, etc., changed completely in Hauptwerk 5. The new mixer is extremely powerful, but also extremely difficult to understand. I have written a small introduction to that, but you should also open the Hauptwerk user manual to read about the audio routing and how to use it to set your desired audio groups.
http://www.sonusparadisi.cz/en/blog/und ... hw5-mixer/
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lemmeling

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Re: My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc gr

PostSun Dec 15, 2019 3:46 am

Hi Jiri,
Nice to see you again, this time not by mail but via the forum. Lol
I've put the pdf of my old settings from HW 4 on wetransfer.
If anyone who wants to invest a bit of time could help me how to recreate my groups FRONT, REAR, NOISES and NO SURROUND I would be very greatful!
I'm not into all this routing thing.
If I even read that experienced people needed weeks to fully comprehend the new audio system...
Anyways, if somebody is out there who could tell me where and how, I will be very grateful.

This is the link: https://we.tl/t-Onk7aetF4u

Ps: I managed to keep my organs in my latest attempt. I just directed the installer to new working directories instead of the ones from HW4 and that did the trick. I think by using the existing old directories it really overwrites everything. But that problem is solved now, thank God.

Cheers to all

Laurens
Last edited by lemmeling on Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zurek

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Re: My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc gr

PostSun Dec 15, 2019 4:46 am

I cannot invest time to making individual setups, but as we say, it is better to teach you fishing, rather than giving you a fish!
Learn the mixer, it is difficult (it was for me, at least), but when you get the insight, then, it is very logical.

The complete "philosophy" of the audio routing changed, so, rather than recreating the groups you had, you should understand the new philosophy.

You will immediately understand, that you do not need any :no surround: group. Because the mixer has 8 different presets, where you can have one preset dedicated to your surround audio and apply it to your surround sets, while preset 2 dedicated to no surround audio of a "wet" stereo sets, and mixer 3 dedicated to no surround sample sets of the "dry" type, adding, for example, the convolution reverb to each division separately for greater result.

It is a mighty mixer, really, but you should abandon the HW4 thinking of audio routing. That is perhaps the most difficult part for us, who used the previous HW versions for many years.
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zurek

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Re: My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc gr

PostSun Dec 15, 2019 4:52 am

And a further insight: for easy setups, such as 4 channel surround, you do not even need to touch the inside of the mixer, because what we would call "groups" in the HW4 terminology, those routings are already prepared by Martin Dyde, the creator of Hauptwerk.
Simply route your front ranks into the front perspective and mute it in the other perspectives.

And route your rear ranks into the rear perspective and mute it in the others.

And attach the desired audio channels to the resulting front and rear master buses of the chosen mixer. Suddenly, you will get the surround without any effort.

And you can still use the default first master bus for your noises, or you can route them to any other pre-prepared routing.

The simple setups are easy and without need to understand the complexities of the new mixer. Really, you should read the chapter in the Hauptwerk User Manual about the Mixer, the examples there will give you what you want.
Last edited by zurek on Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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lemmeling

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Re: My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc gr

PostSun Dec 15, 2019 4:53 am

Thx Jiri.
I'll try that.
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kunzuilh

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Re: My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc gr

PostSun Dec 15, 2019 6:52 am

Hi.
The same thing happened to me when upgrading: all my organs were gone. But after searching, I found the solution. In HW 4 the installation directory for OrganDefinitions and OrganPackages was C:/ and in HW 5 it was C:/Users/UserName. With moving the files from the old directory to the new everything was fixed. This in Win10.

Gonzalo.
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mdyde

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Re: My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc gr

PostSun Dec 15, 2019 1:18 pm

Hello Laurens/Gonzalo,

[Topic moved here.]

Unless you specifically un-install/delete your existing Hauptwerk v4 installation prior to upgrading (which is necessary for v5 on macOS: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17833&start=15#p134736 , but not on Windows), Hauptwerk's installer will automatically default its installation locations to those of your existing v4 installation. (The default installation locations for a new/clean v5 install are different, i.e. within the computer account's home folder, but, when upgrading an existing installation, locations will default to the existing installation locations).

If, when running the installer to upgrade, you select the 'Custom' option and manually change the installation locations from their current values, the installer will try to move the existing folders to your newly-chosen locations (as described in the 'Changing installation locations' section in the main Hauptwerk user guide -- page 28 in the v5.0.0 version). As mentioned there, sometimes that doesn't succeed:

We strongly recommend using Hauptwerk's native backup functionality ('File | Backup your Hauptwerk settings and personal data' ... and making sure you have the original installation media for all sample sets to hand, prior to re-running the installer to move folders, in case anything goes wrong during the moving process (for example, in case storage space runs out, or some sample set files or folders can't be moved because of insufficient permissions, or the computer ‘times out’ some part of the process, or the computer goes to sleep).


If moving the existing locations did fail (which presumably happened in both your cases originally), then you can always get your v4 settings back by restoring into v5 ('File | Restore ...') the last backup that you made from v4. (Periodic automatic backups, unless you've disabled them, can be found in the Hauptwerk/AutomaticBackups folder within your computer account's home folder.)

Earlier today, I also added a post that you might find useful in Iain's audio tutorial thread ( viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17916 ):

mdyde wrote:Also, for the benefit of anybody reading this thread that might not already have found it, the full documentation for Hauptwerk v5's audio routing/mixer/reverb functionality is in the two 'Audio routing and impulse response reverb ...' chapters in the main Hauptwerk user guide (pages 166-201 in the current v5.0.0 version). Also, for those used to v4's routing functionality, the summary in the 'Changes in version 5.0.0 above version 4.2.1: Advanced Edition only: audio routing, multiple audio output perspectives, and associated voicing changes' section in the release notice (pages 5-8 in the v5.0.0 version) explains the changes and how the new routing functionality and terminology relates to those from v4:

https://www.hauptwerk.com/documentation/

In the main Hauptwerk user guide's routing sections, 'Example 6: multi-channel audio with 24 (or more) speakers configured as stereo pairs in 3 groups of 4 pairs each, with different organ divisions routed to different groups, optionally plus a sub-woofer, optionally with an additional pair of ‘rear’ speakers for surround-sound, optionally with an additional pair of speakers as an ‘aux reverb mix’ with added reverb (which can be bypassed, or its wetness adjusted, on a per-organ basis)' (pages 196-201) gives an example of routing different divisions to different groups. (If you only want to use a single stereo pair of speakers for each division, then you would only want one mixer bus, i.e. speaker pair, in each of your groups/divisions).

Note also that if you simply want your existing v4 audio routing to be entirely unchanged from v4 (and you don't plan to take advantage of any of the new routing abilities that v5 offers), then when you first launch v5 just allow it to migrate your existing audio routing/settings, by making sure that that you un-tick the 'Discard migrated Hauptwerk v4 audio settings and reset audio device settings' option on the General Configuration Wizard when it runs automatically upon first launch of v5. [If you have already launched v5 and reset the routing then note that you could potentially get (all of) your v4 settings back, including audio routing, by using 'File | Restore ...' in v5 to restore the last settings backup you made from 4, then re-launching v5, then un-ticking that 'Discard migrated Hauptwerk v4 audio settings and reset audio device settings' option when prompted.]


As Jiri mentioned, although you can certainly migrate your v4 audio settings if you want to, I think you'll find it worth investing some time learn the new v5 routing functionality, since it can do a lot more, and in most cases much more easily/quickly (once one has one's head around the concepts).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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kunzuilh

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Re: My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc gr

PostSun Dec 15, 2019 4:33 pm

Thanks, Martin.
In effect, I installed HW5 and it didn't work, so I uninstalled everything and reinstalled again. That changed the installation directories. My problem was that I had not updated Windows for years (I use Hauptwerk offline) and this caused an error in the installation of iLok Lisence Manager. After updating Windows everything worked fine, but I could not find my organs ... Luckily everything is already solved.
Thank you very much for the great work of HW5.

Gonzalo.
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mdyde

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Re: My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc gr

PostMon Dec 16, 2019 5:07 am

Thanks very much, Gonzalo.

Glad to hear everything is up and running now. Hope you enjoy it.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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lemmeling

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Re: My organs are gone, so are my Rear, Front, Noises etc gr

PostMon Dec 16, 2019 5:36 am

Hi Martin,

Concerning your explaination.... and the one of Jiri,

Thanks, I will look into this asap.
Currently little time due to exams and ... Christmas of course, so I will try out everything said here.
If I should run into problems concerning this routing/new audio templates, I will post follow-up replies here.
But this could take some time, as I want to do this properly and I have not a lot of time for the moment.
Thanks for all the help from you and everyone else!

Cheers, Laurens
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