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Routing audio from HW -into a VST-host -HW question not host

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eivind

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Routing audio from HW -into a VST-host -HW question not host

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 5:06 pm

So - I in Cubase 10 I have my HW-V set up with 8 stereo channels.

I found and renamed the VST-outputs to it in HW-5... next is to assign ranks to various outputs.. - It's a tad confusing (or I am being impatient - because there's a lot of information in the manual that I do not need).

So I start to look for the renamed outputs.. browsing through ranks.. so I can choose them and rout the audio the the VST-input I want (outputs that have my name - instead of the generic default confusions). Just as I had it set up in the last version of HW.. but I cannot see them (the renamed audio outputs) popping up anywhere??

I would expected that the audio outs I set up would show up as a Destination mixer bus group - or at least as a bus somwhere??

I must be doing something wrong.. but what??
Last edited by eivind on Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Routing audio in a VST-host

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 5:08 pm

Oh - and while I am at it. I must download impulse responses from somewhere or what?? The mixer didn't have any - and when diving into the impulse-response folder that HW-V created - there was nothing..
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Re: Routing audio from HW -into a VST-host -HW question not

PostSat Dec 21, 2019 8:39 am

Hello eivind,

The underlying structure of Hauptwerk v5's audio routing is the same as v4's inasmuch as ranks are routed to (mixer bus) groups (the equivalent of v4's audio output groups), groups contain primary mixer buses (the equivalent of v4's primary audio outputs), and mixer buses have audio device channels selected for them.

Here's an excerpt from the user guide ('Audio routing and impulse response reverb part 2 ...: Overview and key concepts for advanced use', page 182 in the current v5.0.0 version):

Conceptually, a pipe/rank’s audio flows through all four of the above screens in the order above, i.e.:

Rank voicing/panning -> Rank routing to audio mixer bus groups -> Audio mixer bus groups -> Audio mixer

(... and then to the General settings | Audio device ... screen.)


Hence if you want to route different ranks to different device channels, then you need to make sure that you have configured appropriate primary mixer buses for them (and ideally named them sensibly, so that you can identify them easily), and then set up groups for them (putting the relevant primary buses in the groups, and naming the groups sensibly). You can then route ranks to those groups.

It isn't sufficient in v5 (or v4) just to rename a bus/output (or audio device channel) -- you need to configure/name an appropriate group for it as well, before you can route ranks appropriately to it.

Please see also this thread for some tutorials: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17916

... and my introduction to it there:

mdyde wrote:Also, for the benefit of anybody reading this thread that might not already have found it, the full documentation for Hauptwerk v5's audio routing/mixer/reverb functionality is in the two 'Audio routing and impulse response reverb ...' chapters in the main Hauptwerk user guide (pages 166-201 in the current v5.0.0 version). Also, for those used to v4's routing functionality, the summary in the 'Changes in version 5.0.0 above version 4.2.1: Advanced Edition only: audio routing, multiple audio output perspectives, and associated voicing changes' section in the release notice (pages 5-8 in the v5.0.0 version) explains the changes and how the new routing functionality and terminology relates to those from v4:

https://www.hauptwerk.com/documentation/

In the main Hauptwerk user guide's routing sections, 'Example 6: multi-channel audio with 24 (or more) speakers configured as stereo pairs in 3 groups of 4 pairs each, with different organ divisions routed to different groups, optionally plus a sub-woofer, optionally with an additional pair of ‘rear’ speakers for surround-sound, optionally with an additional pair of speakers as an ‘aux reverb mix’ with added reverb (which can be bypassed, or its wetness adjusted, on a per-organ basis)' (pages 196-201) gives an example of routing different divisions to different groups. (If you only want to use a single stereo pair of speakers for each division, then you would only want one mixer bus, i.e. speaker pair, in each of your groups/divisions).


E.g. perhaps start by reading through the release notice section, which explains how v5's audio routing relates to v4's.

eivind wrote:Oh - and while I am at it. I must download impulse responses from somewhere or what?? The mixer didn't have any - and when diving into the impulse-response folder that HW-V created - there was nothing..


A set of 18 impulse response reverbs should have been installed automatically by Hauptwerk v5's installer.

Are you using macOS or Windows? If macOS, did you completely un-install/delete v4 before installing v5, as covered here?: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17850
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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Re: Routing audio from HW -into a VST-host -HW question not

PostSat Dec 21, 2019 10:56 am

My OS is Win7 (64bit).

Thanks - I'll look further into this.
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Re: Routing audio from HW -into a VST-host -HW question not

PostSat Dec 21, 2019 1:58 pm

Thanks, eivind.

You should be able to see the list of installed impulse response reverbs by clicking on the 'Reverb: Select ...' button on the 'General settings | Audio mixer' screen. If you don't see any, please try re-running the v5.0.0 installer (no need to un-install first). It should install any missing files.
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Re: Routing audio from HW -into a VST-host -HW question not

PostSun Dec 22, 2019 2:53 pm

Got a tad further.. but there seems to be one convention confusing me still..

In the Audio Mixer
It says:
Stereo 0001/0002
then
Stereo 0002/0003

it goes on downwards.. I have managed to pipe the audio to different channels in Cubase, but I still don't feel I have the full control of it.. - for instance - I want all extra noises (wind model, and quirks on a channel of it's own).

I would have expected the next to be three and four?? Why is 0002 repeated??

btw - got the impulse responses. :) when I have made a setup that resembles my old one, I'll start expermenting with the new stuff.. got a hunch that I can make some really nice stuff with my dry sample set..
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Re: Routing audio from HW -into a VST-host -HW question not

PostSun Dec 22, 2019 3:02 pm

Hello eivind,

eivind wrote:Got a tad further.. but there seems to be one convention confusing me still..

In the Audio Mixer
It says:
Stereo 0001/0002
then
Stereo 0002/0003

it goes on downwards.. I have managed to pipe the audio to different channels in Cubase, but I still don't feel I have the full control of it.. - for instance - I want all extra noises (wind model, and quirks on a channel of it's own).

I would have expected the next to be three and four?? Why is 0002 repeated??


If you'd already assigned VST channels 1/2 to one stereo mixer bus then you wouldn't normally want to assign either of those two channels to any other bus, so 3/4 would indeed be the next free channels to assign to a different stereo bus. The in-between values (2/3, 4/5, etc.) are just there in case you'd already used the lower numbers for an uneven number of mono buses. For example, somebody might decide to use channel 1 for a mono sub-woofer feed, and then use 2/3 for the first stereo bus.

eivind wrote:btw - got the impulse responses. :) when I have made a setup that resembles my old one, I'll start expermenting with the new stuff.. got a hunch that I can make some really nice stuff with my dry sample set..


Thanks -- excellent.
Best regards, Martin.
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Re: Routing audio from HW -into a VST-host -HW question not

PostSun Dec 22, 2019 3:38 pm

Thanks.. :)

come to think of it - even though I recon I am reasonably fluent in the English language... wouldn't it be nice with some sort of a graphical representation of the audio within HW? A flowchart?!
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Re: Routing audio from HW -into a VST-host -HW question not

PostSun Dec 22, 2019 4:09 pm

Plus - starting to suspect something here.. could the old VST-plugin play havoc if it weren't properly removed by the install? or is it the same.. - i.e no relevance!?
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Re: Routing audio from HW -into a VST-host -HW question not

PostSun Dec 22, 2019 4:30 pm

Also noticed as I clik on the numerous options in HW:

Note: This organ was created for an earlier version of Hauptwerk, so might not fully support all of HW...etc.. into check whether an updated version is available from bla.bla...

could I still have a wrong version?? I did d/l the files that I was guided to... !?
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Re: Routing audio from HW -into a VST-host -HW question not

PostSun Dec 22, 2019 4:46 pm

Current state is this:

I have got the ranks where I want them, I have the mixbuses and groups figured out and routed to appropriate device channels.. - or at least - that's what the read-out says.. however - I do not get any sound from my channels 15/16 where I have routed the noises. (wind, pistons noises etc). the noises however - are all over the other channels... of the 8 stereo-channels I have set up I get sound from a number of 6..

I have also found I did a few mistakes here and there.. but I think I have ironed them out.. the minute I know what is routed where.. when I do get an expected result in Cubase from one single rank.. well - then I recon I have got the grasp of it all.. at this point - I am still not there.. :?

I still remember setting up my HW4 in less than an hour.. - why did I go down this lane?? it's not the money - I can afford an acoustic pipe organ (no - I do not have the space for it.. :lol: ) .. but I desperatly need to be in control of my feckn' instrument..
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Re: Routing audio from HW -into a VST-host -HW question not

PostMon Dec 23, 2019 5:39 am

eivind wrote:Plus - starting to suspect something here.. could the old VST-plugin play havoc if it weren't properly removed by the install? or is it the same.. - i.e no relevance!?


Hello eivind,

As with any previous Hauptwerk version, Hauptwerk's installer installs the VST plug-ins to whichever folder you select in the installer. By default for v5 that's 'C:\Program Files\Hauptwerk Virtual Pipe Organ VST Link Plug-In', as it was for v4. If older versions of the plug-ins are there they will be upgraded (overwritten) to the new versions.

As long as you have the correct (v5) version of the plug-in loaded in your VST host then that's fine. You can check the version of any loaded plug-in in your VST host (Cubase). (It doesn't particularly matter if you also have an older version of them somewhere on your drive, except of course to the extent that it might risk you accidentally loading the wrong version in your VST host.)
Best regards, Martin.
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Re: Routing audio from HW -into a VST-host -HW question not

PostMon Dec 23, 2019 5:49 am

eivind wrote:Also noticed as I clik on the numerous options in HW:

Note: This organ was created for an earlier version of Hauptwerk, so might not fully support all of HW...etc.. into check whether an updated version is available from bla.bla...

could I still have a wrong version?? I did d/l the files that I was guided to... !?


In Hauptwerk v5 (or v4), you will get that information message the first time that you load any given organ whose organ definition was originally created for Hauptwerk v2-v3 (and for which the sample set producer hasn't specifically added support in the organ definition for v4+ features). Hauptwerk v5 behaves exactly the same as v4 in that respect.

Probably most of the organs that producers have recently re-issued for v5 compatibility were simply re-encrypted for v5, without actually also making any additional functional changes in their organ definitions (many of which may not have changed functionally since they were originally released for Hauptwerk v2/v3). Hence the information message you're getting may be expected and doesn't indicate an error -- if the organ loads at all in v5 (and you wouldn't be able to get that message if it didn't) then you already have a v5-compatible version of the organ installed (which is probably the latest version of the organ).
Best regards, Martin.
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Re: Routing audio from HW -into a VST-host -HW question not

PostMon Dec 23, 2019 6:09 am

eivind wrote:Current state is this:

I have got the ranks where I want them, I have the mixbuses and groups figured out and routed to appropriate device channels.. - or at least - that's what the read-out says.. however - I do not get any sound from my channels 15/16 where I have routed the noises. (wind, pistons noises etc). the noises however - are all over the other channels... of the 8 stereo-channels I have set up I get sound from a number of 6..

I have also found I did a few mistakes here and there.. but I think I have ironed them out.. the minute I know what is routed where.. when I do get an expected result in Cubase from one single rank.. well - then I recon I have got the grasp of it all.. at this point - I am still not there.. :?

I still remember setting up my HW4 in less than an hour.. - why did I go down this lane?? it's not the money - I can afford an acoustic pipe organ (no - I do not have the space for it.. :lol: ) .. but I desperatly need to be in control of my feckn' instrument..


In Hauptwerk (v2-v5) noises are 'ranks' like any other. If they aren't sounding from the VST channels (15/16) that you want them to sound from then check that:

- You have a stereo primary mixer bus set up for the noises, with VST channels 15/16 selected as its output device channels.
- You have a group set up for the noises, with just that one mixer bus in it.
- You have those noise ranks routed to that intended group.

Hauptwerk v5 is fundamentally exactly the same as v4 in those respects. (The main differences are that the screens were renamed, they're now fully real-time, and that v5 can do a lot more besides.) Once you have the hang of it, I think you'll find that audio routing in v5 is actually much faster and easier to set up (and much more powerful) than it was in v4.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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