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At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

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ns_organist

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At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostTue Jan 14, 2020 7:39 pm

Hello all,

Just to recap my steps so far:

1. Paid for the v5 advanced upgrade.
2. Paid for iLok dongle. – my HW setup is not connected to the internet.
3. Created iLok account.
4. Downloaded Hauptwerk v5
5. Plugged Ilok into HW PC (directly connect, not through a hub or extension cable)
6. Activated Hauptwerk v5
7. Downloaded all MDA Sample Sets (which, by the way, was not an apparent requirement. Lots of 'hunting' on the forum to find the pdf link. A simple email from MDA would have been nice!!)
8. Migrated v4 SampleSets to v5
9. Uninstalled and reinstalled all MDA v5 Samplesets.
10. Restored Hauptwerk from my final v4 back up - why? Because, quite frankly, after 4 complete days of downloading, registering, licensing, uninstalling, reinstalling, waiting, googling, searching the forum, I was too exhausted to even begin trying to figure out the new audio features of v5. And, yes, I've read the new manual pages 166-201 4 times, and still cannot grasp the concepts.

Now, my Salisbury organ, which used to load at 24bit and leave me 3GB of RAM available, now requires me to load it in 20bit, with only 1GB of RAM leftover. Now I have a lesser quality version of the same instrument I had last month in v4.

$200 for the upgrade, $50 for the dongle, and 3 days of my life completely gone, but at least it worked, and was up to date. Or so I thought….

I thought I was finished.

Nope.

Now, when I start my Windows computer, HW doesn't load at startup. I put HW in the startup tray, but I get a notice advising "PACE License Support Software required.". Nothing works. I tried changing the startup delay in HW – it was set to 3 seconds. 5 seconds. Nope. 10 seconds. Nope. I don’t think the delay feature bypasses iLok. (Perhaps if the ILok isn’t seen, then HW can’t begin the startup (or delay process) – at least this is how it seems to me.)

My iLok account is active, all my licenses are there. HW v5 worked up to yesterday. My setup is not connected to the internet, and has not been during this entire upgrade ordeal. If I connect my HW computer to the internet, and try to start HW, it works. Why?

At the moment, the only way I can use my HW is to:

1. Move the console (nothing is easier or more enjoyable then moving an organ console, btw).
2. Connect the HW pc to the internet.
3. Uninstall PACE.
4. Download a 'new' version of PACE (even though it's identical to the one on my PC).
5. Reinstall PACE.
6. Log into the Licensee Manager, where I can view the beautiful array of my HW and Sampleset Licenses, which are ALL on my iLok dongle.
7, Move the console back.
8. Launch HW. HW now works. This time.

If I unplug the internet, it will continue to work, but once I exit HW, I cannot reload it.

When I unload the organ, I get a “Hauptwerk (64bit, AVX) has stopped working”. I cannot complete a shut down/exit without interacting with the monitor.

Even with moving the console, connecting to the internet, etc., I still have to interact with the PC on startup and shut down. Neither was required in v4. V4 just worked.

The iLok Dongle is connect to the PC in the same slot through all of the above. It doesn’t get unplugged or moved at all.

I cannot launch the Licensing manager when not connected to the internet. Even when I do connect, it prompts me that there is an error, and the software needs to be reinstalled. Ok fine. Once. Repeatedly? Numerous times per day? This is not acceptable.

I have lost so much confidence in the HW and the MDA team. I have lost my confidence in this product. I am tired of spending DAYS (not hours) trying to reload the exact same sampleset that has worked perfectly for years.

I need help! What is wrong with my license?
Kevin
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rayjcar

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Re: At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostTue Jan 14, 2020 8:18 pm

Are you sure that you have activated your licenses TO THE DONGLE? The iLok license manager can be installed on any computer, and can be set up to log in automatically when you load the software. When you load the license manager and log it, it will show you all your licenses. If the dongle is attached to the computer, the dongle should appear as solid black, and the number of activated license will be shown below the serial number. If the dongle isn't attached, it will be greyed out, but you should still see "x activations".

The fact that you need to connect your computer to the internet to start Hauptwerk suggests that your licenses are on the cloud and haven't been activated onto the dongle. If so, you need to move them to the dongle.

Ray
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mdyde

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Re: At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostWed Jan 15, 2020 6:15 am

Hello Kevin,

Thanks for buying the v5 upgrade, and sorry to hear you've been having problems getting it up and running reliably.

To add to Ray's reply, on the PC on which you're having the problem, please try:

- For now, please remove Hauptwerk from the Windows automatic start-up applications, in case that's somehow affecting the issue. (As you surmised, the start-up delay function within Hauptwerk can't allow time for the PACE iLok drivers to load, since the iLok system would need to have allowed Hauptwerk to launch first.)

- Reboot the PC and verify that Windows doesn't try to launch Hauptwerk automatically.

- Connect your Hauptwerk computer temporarily to the Internet, for the following steps.

- Make sure that all available Window updates are installed on the PC. (Check for updates, apply any available, reboot, and repeat until no more available updates are found.)

- Via the Windows Settings ('Apps | Apps & features'), un-install the '[i]Pace License Support Win64[/i]'.

- Reboot the PC.

- Re-install the current version of iLok License Manager for Windows 64-bit. (In case you do ever need to re-install it later for any reason, there's no need to download it every time -- if the current version has already been downloaded then you could save the downloaded installer somewhere on your Hauptwerk computer.)

- Reboot the PC.

- Make sure that your iLok dongle is attached to the PC and that its internal lamp is lit (which indicates that the computer and drivers are seeing the dongle properly).

- Launch iLok License Manager and click the 'Sign in' button. [This assumes the PC has an Internet connection. An Internet connection is needed if you want to sign in to iLok License Manager, so as to be able to view the licences on a dongle, but you wouldn't need an Internet connection for just using Hauptwerk.]

- In the left-hand pane, click on the 'iLok_NNNNNN...' entry (where NNNNNN is a number). This is the node that represents your iLok dongle.

- In the right-hand pane (which shows your licences), find the entry named 'Hauptwerk Advanced Edition ...'. Double-click on that entry.

- In the lower right-hand pane it should then show the full details of that licence. It should say 'License Status: Active'.

Does it show that status as exactly 'Active'? (If not, the licence isn't currently activated on the iLok dongle, so Hauptwerk won't see it.) Thanks.

Also, just in case you're using Windows 10 and your computer is experiencing issues with the amount of memory that Hauptwerk v5 asks to be allowed to use, I'll also send you a forum P.M. with a temporary work-around that should avoid that.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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ns_organist

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Re: At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostFri Jan 17, 2020 8:02 am

Hello Martin,

Thanks for the response.

Yes, my Licenses are contained on the iLok (not the cloud), and are all 'Active'.

I've followed your instructions, and found that I was missing a driver for the iLok. My Windows 7 PC has updated, and HW starts successfully (once I click the desktop HW icon).

However, I now have the issue of not having HW startup with my PC. (Prior to my upgrade, I was't using the monitor at all, as HW was in my startup routine.) Is the issue of HW not seeing the iLok at startup something that will be addressed so I can launch HW automatically when my PC boots up?

As of now, the iLok is plugged directly into the PC. In my setup, I am also using a USB hub, which is powered, and 'always on' to power my 2 iPads (used for stop control). If I place the iLok in this hub, leaving it powered on all the time, would that solve the problem of HW not seeing the iLok right away at startup? Or will the iLok not work correctly in the hub?

Again, thank you for your help.

Kevin
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mdyde

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Re: At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostFri Jan 17, 2020 8:45 am

Hello Kevin,

Thanks for the update, and glad to hear your licences are now found if Hauptwerk is launched manually.

ns_organist wrote:However, I now have the issue of not having HW startup with my PC. (Prior to my upgrade, I was't using the monitor at all, as HW was in my startup routine.) Is the issue of HW not seeing the iLok at startup something that will be addressed so I can launch HW automatically when my PC boots up?

As of now, the iLok is plugged directly into the PC. In my setup, I am also using a USB hub, which is powered, and 'always on' to power my 2 iPads (used for stop control). If I place the iLok in this hub, leaving it powered on all the time, would that solve the problem of HW not seeing the iLok right away at startup? Or will the iLok not work correctly in the hub?


I don't know whether having the iLok dongle attached via your USB hub would allow its driver to find it more quickly when the PC boots, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to try. There's no reason not to have the dongle attached to a hub provided that the hub has sufficient power for all of the devices attached to it (and is a good-quality model, without compatibility issues, etc.).

If (using the temporary work-around that I sent you), you try making Windows launch Hauptwerk automatically, does it now work successfully (with the dongle attached via the hub, if having it attached directly to the PC doesn't work)?

(I'm not sure there's anything we could actually do technically within Hauptwerk itself to make Hauptwerk wait for the iLok system to have finished loading as the PC boots, but if needed we could try raising that with PACE's support to see whether they have any suggestions. The only other option would probably be to use something like a batch/script/utiity that started automatically as the PC boots, waited a few seconds, and then launched Hauptwerk.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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micdev

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Re: At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostFri Jan 17, 2020 8:51 am

* Oups... edit... I see that Martin replied, but it may be that you simply need to add Hauptwerk to your startup folder)

Good morning Kevin,

You must add Hauptwerk to your startup folder. Here is how - https://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-7/add-programs-to-windows-7-startup-folder/ or if you're a visual guy... [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke9EFKRGruI/url]

Regards
Virtually sharing my enthusiasm and experience with you
Worldwide technical assistance, consultation and ready to play system.

http://www.HauptwerkConsultant.com

AND Hauptwerk Support Manager
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ns_organist

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Re: At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostFri Jan 17, 2020 9:10 am

Hello Martin,

Thanks again for the reply.

I did not try to launch HW on startup (using the files you sent). Perhaps I misunderstood your instructions - I thought you intended for me to remove HW from startup completely/permanently - but upon re-reading, perhaps you meant to remove it from start up only while the PC was updating and re-starting so many times. Now that I'm up to date, and have the driver installed, I'll put HW back in the startup folder and see if it works on it's on as the PC starts up. (I won't have an opportunity to try until later today, but I'll make a further posting to advise if it works as expected.)

Thank you,
Kevin
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mdyde

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Re: At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostFri Jan 17, 2020 9:46 am

Thanks, Kevin.

Yes -- I'd just meant to remove it temporarily from Windows start-up list until the other problems had been satisfactorily resolved.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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ns_organist

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Re: At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostSat Jan 18, 2020 8:47 am

Hello Martin,

I'm still having some problems.

I attempted to use the work around you sent me in the pm yesterday. On my first startup of the PC (which still had the original HW configuration in the startup folder), HW started and loaded fine (no RAM or iLok problems). I removed HW from startup, and rebooted, and confirm HW did not launch on it's own. Then, I followed your instructions from the pm. Once installed, I clicked the HW icon, and received an error from PACE advising that my license wasn't found. I shut down the computer, and turned off the power bar. The blue light on the iLok eventually went off. I waited 5 mins. I started up the PC (still with nothing in the startup folder) and then launched HW (by clicking on the desktop icon) using your workaround. It began to load. I cancelled loading before complete, as I was pressed for time and wanted to test how it would work if placed back in the startup folder.

I put the new HW icon in the startup folder, and shut down the computer. Waited for the iLok to turn off, then started up the PC. HW launched on it's own and began to load.

However, I received a RAM message at 85% advising that I was out of RAM. In HW4, I was using Salisbury at 24bit, and had about 3GB RAM leftover once it was loaded. Since HW5 (up to yesterday), I had to change it to 20bit (as 24bit
maxed out my RAM), and was at the peak (one orange bar in the RAM meter) of my usage once loaded. Now, at 20bit, I cannot load it at all. I reloaded the organ at 16bit, which worked, but I'm struggling to see how this is an upgrade.

When I finally gave up, I clicked shut down from the HW menu, and HW froze. I had to click 'close program' option in windows twice to get it to shut down.

I do not feel confident in the iLok, as it doesn't seem to be recognized by the PC or HW consistently. I usually don't use a monitor, and my console has iPads and LCD displays, neither of which are setup to handle the PACE error messages, which presents a huge problem in loading/starting and shutting down the organ. I would like to try the iLok in my powered USB hub, however this will necessitate me taking my console partially apart in order to access the hub. I will try this at my first opportunity. Hopefully this will resolve the iLok issue. Is anyone else having an issue with the iLok not being consistently recognized? It seems to work fine if starting the computer from being completely powered off, but in cases of a restart (not shut down), the iLok doesn't seem to be recognized by HW soon enough.

There is still the RAM and shutdown issue, though.

Kevin
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mdyde

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Re: At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostSat Jan 18, 2020 9:47 am

Hello Kevin,

Thanks for the update.

ns_organist wrote:However, I received a RAM message at 85% advising that I was out of RAM. In HW4, I was using Salisbury at 24bit, and had about 3GB RAM leftover once it was loaded. Since HW5 (up to yesterday), I had to change it to 20bit (as 24bit
maxed out my RAM), and was at the peak (one orange bar in the RAM meter) of my usage once loaded. Now, at 20bit, I cannot load it at all. I reloaded the organ at 16bit, which worked, but I'm struggling to see how this is an upgrade.


It really is very important that the RAM shouldn't be overfilled (with v5 or v4), otherwise the computer is very likely to misbehave in strange ways.

Hauptwerk v5 uses some more memory than v4 did, for its new audio engine and audio routing features. (This post covers that: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17970#p136225 .)

Also, the work-around that I sent you intentionally allows Hauptwerk to use a little less memory than the released v5.0.0 version, because we've found that some PCs misbehaved as a result of the amount of memory that v5.0.0 asked Windows to allow it to be able to use. Hence the work-around I sent is intentionally a little more conservative in that respect, so as to keep a slightly larger proportion of the RAM (about 10% of the physical RAM, if you have 32+ GB) unused by Hauptwerk (and thus free for Windows and drivers to use, so that the PC should be able to work reliably and be stable). However, filling the RAM by more than 90% would almost certainly never really have been safe anyway.

ns_organist wrote:When I finally gave up, I clicked shut down from the HW menu, and HW froze. I had to click 'close program' option in windows twice to get it to shut down.


Recent Windows 10 builds perform very slowly when releasing locked memory (which is a Windows performance bug that Microsoft are aware of and intended to address eventually). Hence, in v5 or v4, it may take some time (maybe even several minutes) to unload a large organ, or to exit Hauptwerk with a large organ loaded, but it should get there eventually if you leave it.

Hauptwerk v5 contains a work-around to that Windows bug whereby if you disable the Windows page file (as explained in step 2 on page 23 of the main Hauptwerk v5.0.0 user guide) then Hauptwerk won't ask Windows to lock its data into physical RAM, so it will unload organs and exit much faster.

This is the excerpt on that from the v5.0.0 release notice:

PCs: organs should unload much faster on recent Windows 10 versions if Windows' page file is completely disabled (as a work-around to a performance bug relating to locked memory in recent Windows 10 updates, which Microsoft is aware of and aims to address properly in the longer-term).


Hence I would recommend disabling the page file for best performance. Does that resolve that one?
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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Re: At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostSat Jan 18, 2020 10:37 am

Hello Martin,

Your post references Windows 10 - I am using Windows 7 home premium (64 bit). (I'm assuming the benefits of disabling the windows page will still be relevant). I will try to disable the windows page this evening, and see how everything works.

I appreciate your help getting this resolved.

Kevin
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Re: At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostSat Jan 18, 2020 11:17 am

Thanks, Kevin.

As far as I know (based on when it first arose a couple of years or so ago), that extremely-slow-locked-memory-release issue was/is only applicable to Windows 10. However, disabling the Windows page file is likely still to yield a certain amount of improvement in loading/unloading/exit times and general performance, even with Windows 7.

Also note that (unless you've disabled automatic backups via the General Preferences screen in Hauptwerk), Hauptwerk will try to make a settings backup periodically when you exit, which can take several minutes if you have a lot of organs.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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Re: At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostFri Jan 24, 2020 3:27 pm

Hello Martin,

Just an update on my progress:

I cannot disable the windows page in Windows 7 with the instructions you provided for Windows 10. I do not seem to have available the same path (Start, System, Advanced, and so on...). I cannot find the 'system' folder, therefore cannot continue with the process.

I tried to disable auto backups in HW from the general preference screen. I have the option to backup: weekly, monthly, or on reload of sampleset. I do not see any box to tick to disable the auto-backup function completely. Is there such a function? (I routinely backup my HW settings on my own, so I don't need an auto feature). Can you advise.

My system is still getting hung up on exiting HW. Again, I don't usually use the monitor, and my console isn't setup to handle an unloading error. Any suggestions?

I am using the workaround you sent to start HW. I have placed this desktop icon in my startup folder. I am still having the issue with the iLok not being recognized by HW on startup, and get a license error. Once I click on the error, usually I can launch HW manually from the desktop. On a few occasions, I've had to do a complete shut down and power off, then manually restart in order to get HW to launch. At any rate, this isn't consistently working, and still is creating a huge problem of how to load HW without using the PC (and how to handle the error messages through my console). Is there no way to 'delay' HW from starting in order to give the iLok a chance to initialize? (I'm not referring to the Advance Setting - allow extra time to wait at startup - HW can't allow time to wait if HW can't start, which HW can't do because HW doesn't see the iLok in time.)

I have reloaded Salisbury in 20bit, but still maxed out on ram. I can only use Salisbury in 16bit. In HW v4 I was using 24bit.

To sum:
I cannot launch HW on startup of the PC due to the iLok.
I cannot exit HW without an error, and must click 'end process' on the PC in order to shut down.
I cannot use Salisbury in 24bit, or even 20bit. Apparently, I must now purchase a new PC in order to realize the benefits of this upgrade.

I'm almost 1 month into my experience with v5, and still haven't had time to figure out the audio settings, as I'm most concerned with simply starting up and shutting down my system without errors.

If anything I have downgraded myself, and now must revert to using the PC monitor for many HW functions I could previously handle with my console. Once I do get the organ loaded, I am using an inferior sampleset resolution to what I had in v4. I am very disappointed with this software upgrade, and need a permanent solution. I hope that on Feb 1 I will not be faced with a service ticket charge for this problem. It has been ongoing since I first attempted to upgrade, and there doesn't seem to be a solution. I would prefer to revert to v4, however that option has been made unavailable.

Kevin
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mdyde

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Re: At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostFri Jan 24, 2020 3:50 pm

Hello Kevin,

ns_organist wrote:I cannot disable the windows page in Windows 7 with the instructions you provided for Windows 10. I do not seem to have available the same path (Start, System, Advanced, and so on...). I cannot find the 'system' folder, therefore cannot continue with the process.


Here's a video that explains how to disable the page file on Windows 7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh66PzVNUvg

ns_organist wrote: tried to disable auto backups in HW from the general preference screen. I have the option to backup: weekly, monthly, or on reload of sampleset. I do not see any box to tick to disable the auto-backup function completely. Is there such a function? (I routinely backup my HW settings on my own, so I don't need an auto feature). Can you advise.


On the 'General settings | General preferences' screen, please just set 'Automatically backup ...' setting to 'Only when resetting settings or voicing/panning'. That disables periodic backups when you exit Hauptwerk (in v5, as in v4).

Another person had a problem whereby Hauptwerk would crash on his PC when exiting via 'File | Exit ...' (but not if clicking on the 'x' close button in the title bar. I can't reproduce that myself, and the code in Hauptwerk hadn't actually changed for that between v4 and v5, and I think it might be due to a bug (or at least change in behaviour) in the newer version of the Qt multi-platform library that we use for Hauptwerk. I changed 'File | Exit ...' to exit using the same code that the 'x' close button does, which resolved the crash on his PC.

I'll send you a forum P.M. with a newer work-around, which contains that change. Please let me know whether that also resolves the issue with exiting (having also disabled periodic backups, and the Windows page file, as above).

Thanks.

ns_organist wrote:I cannot launch HW on startup of the PC due to the iLok.


I've raised the issue with PACE's support and will let you know what they suggest.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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mdyde

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Re: At the end of my rope with V5 - Help!

PostSat Jan 25, 2020 3:46 pm

Hello Kevin,

To add to my reply from yesterday:

I'll send you P.M. with the newest build, which (as v4 and v5.0.0 were) is a bit less conservative in the amount of physical RAM it keeps free for the operating system. (However, you still have to be extremely careful of over-filling the RAM due to the corresponding risk of system instability, as always with any Hauptwerk version.)

PACE also got back to me. They don't currently have a means by which their software could delay launching Hauptwerk automatically until the iLok system had finished booting, so we'd need to make something like a batch file/script that you'd set Windows to launch automatically, which would check for the iLok system to have finished loading (and wait and re-check as needed) before it would launch Hauptwerk. Francois (our support manager, and Windows expert) is going to work on that, and we'll keep you updated as soon as we have something for you.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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