Hauptwerk V5 suddenly stopped playing and started to whine.

I know, strange title. Some family dropped by for a visit this afternoon, so I thought I'd demonstrate the new software. Hauptwerk started up normally. I was playing and everything was working perfectly when suddenly, ALL the organ sounds stopped instantly and completely and a single tone (like a feedback howl) started. I took a little time and tried to restart midi and some other things, but to no avail. The sound was not an organ sample type sound, but was more like a feedback; however, it did not vary but was a solid, pure sound, unvarying in frequency and amplitude. I didn't want to spend a lot of time since I had an audience. Nothing like this has ever happened to me before with my VPO. I was originally afraid I had a hardware failure, perhaps in the UltraLite-Mk4. I terminated Hauptwerk and I immediately had silence. Speakers still on, no issues. Restarted Hauptwerk, and started playing again with absolutely no issues. I did NOT restart the computer, just the Hauptwerk application. I was actually quite surprised by that. I've looked at the logs, and see nothing unusual. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Don't really know what I can do for research, since I continued my mini-recital loading a number of different instruments and all went fine. It was quite embarrassing due to having an audience.

HW5, MacOS 10.15.4, MacBook Pro, 2.9 GHz, 16 GB, feeding a MOTU UltraLite-Mk4 into powered Behringer B2031A stereo pair and powered Behringer Sub.

Any and all suggestions appreciated.

Best regards,
Ray

[mdyde]

Hello Ray,

(I assume you're using Hauptwerk v5.0.1; if in doubt, e.g. if you've set Windows to launch Hauptwerk automatically on boot, check via 'Help | About Hauptwerk'.)

Am I right in understanding that one or both of the following are true?:

1. The sound continued even after you'd stopped audio/MIDI ('Engine | Advanced ... | Stop audio/MIDI')? And/or:

2. The sound continued uninterrupted whilst restarting audio/MIDI in Hauptwerk (e.g. via the Engine menu of Audio, MIDI and Performance large control panel)?

If so, I think it must somehow have been some weird problem in the driver/hardware, since once audio/MIDI has been stopped in Hauptwerk, Hauptwerk wouldn't/couldn't be sending any audio at all to the driver, and wouldn't have any means at all to output sound; the sound couldn't have been produced by Hauptwerk itself at that point.

Exiting Hauptwerk actually unloads the driver (as opposed to just stopping it), so presumably that was what fixed it somehow.

I see that the MOTU UltraLite Mk4 connects via USB, so perhaps the USB connection to the computer was interrupted for some reason, and unloading the driver reset something in the hardware/driver.

[micdev]

Hello Ray,

To add to Martin' reply, I'm using also a Motu (24ao) and had a similar problem last year (with HW4). I upgraded the drivers and never had that problem since.See Motu' download page - https://motu.com/download

Make sure that you are using the latest drivers. With Windows updating once in a while, keeping the audio drivers up to date is important.

Hope this helps

Martin and François,

Thank you both for your replies.

Martin,
Yes the sound did continue. I am running the most recent release of Hauptwerk (not on Windows, but on Mac). The one piece of hardware I did not mention is ALL data, in and out, goes through one Thunderbolt 3 port/wire into an OWC dock. All the USB connections are on that (expensive) powered dock. Both the two LaunchPads and the MOTU are connected to that, in addition to three drives. I don't think that had an issue since the Mac did not complain about disconnecting a drive without ejecting it. Just for fun, I think I'll unplug/replug ALL the USB cables on that dock.

François,
At least I'm not the only one who has had an issue like this! I thought I was on the latest release of the MOTU software but checking that page, I note that MOTU has released new software for MAC less than a month ago. I'll install those latest drivers.

Again, thank you both.

Regards,
Ray

[mdyde]

Thanks, Ray.

Apparently this issue may not be unique with a Mac? In other words, François, are you using a PC with your 24Ao? I'm using a PC to drive a MOTU 24Ao without any such issues so far.

Rgds,
Ed

[micdev]

Ed,

I'm exclusively using PsC and 99% of my clients also (I converted many hard-core Mac users to PC thru the years)

We must be careful about that type of crashes. Mac are known for various problems, especially those with T2 chip. In my case, I had once a similar problem similar to what Ray reported.. it was on my 2011 PC, under Windows 7 (not even SP1) and kept my computers powered for months.

It was a first, but since the drivers were old I upgraded, and this is the first thing I usually do when weird audio problems (such as Ray' problem) occurs with my clients. Nothing is perfect, software is software, ram can get corrupted by other processes etc...

99.9% sure that it is not related to Hauptwerk (as explained by Martin) and was running at that time Hauptwerk 4. So drivers problem or a background task crashing...

Ed,

I'm exclusively using PsC and 99% of my clients also (I converted many hard-core Mac users to PC thru the years)

We must be careful about that type of crashes. Mac are known for various problems, especially those with T2 chip.

The T2 chip issues have been resolved. As to converting hard core Mac users to Windows, that was a substantial disservice

Just as a followup, I installed the updated MOTU device driver today, and played for a few hours with no issues. Of course, I played for a few hours yesterday morning without any issues either! And I played a lot of hours before that too. My device drivers were not really very old, but it (almost) never hurts to be on the most current. I'm just going to write this off as a 'whoops'. I was playing some 'big stuff' when the issue occurred, but even wide-open my box cruises at around 20% to 30% CPU total for all tasks (actual, monitored by iStat Menus application) so the system was not overwhelmed.

As far as converting me, I'm a z/OS mainframe guy. z/OS is a rock-stable OS, and does amazing things day-in and day-out. I worked on those mainframes for years, and they still amaze me with their power. One ATM CICS region doing 200 transactions per second all day long, and that is only 1 task out of over 600 running concurrently in that thing. MacOS is MUCH closer to z/OS than that 'other' OS. So, I wish anyone luck converting me!

Again, thanks for the help. It is much appreciated!

Regards,
Ray

I make it a point to not argue politics, religion or operating systems
Most everything else is fair game.

Rgds,
Ed

I make it a point to not argue politics, religion or operating systems
Most everything else is fair game.

Rgds,
Ed

I certainly wasn't arguing and am sorry if I came across that way. I was just having some fun. Sorry again.

I certainly wasn't arguing and am sorry if I came across that way. I was just having some fun. Sorry again.

I realize you weren't "arguing" in any way. Your points were well taken. I was teasing a bit about including operating systems in that grouping.

Rgds,
Ed

I was playing and everything was working perfectly when suddenly, ALL the organ sounds stopped instantly and completely and a single tone (like a feedback howl) started.

Hello Ray:

I too have experienced this same ordeal! The issue is your MOTU interface. My early HW rig, which was/is PC based, consisted of a MOTU Ultralite MK3 Hybrid. It was an early production model based on the serial number. The "feedback howl" is a perfect description. Mine would emit this sound (and freeze up) all by itself after sitting idle for over an hour or so. Other times switching from a 48Hz to a 44.1Hz organ sample set would trigger the sound but again only if it was idle for a period of time. I installed latest drivers from MOTU but to no avail so I just chalked it up to an early production build. Normally I shut down my Hauptwerk organ when I'm done but occasionally life interferes and your quick break turns into a 2 hours absence. I just got in the habit of restarting everything if the idle time was close to an hour. This work around resolved my feedback howl.

I have since switched over to the MOTU 24aO model like François mentioned and haven't had this issue.

Danny B.

P.S. I have 3 Hauptwerk colleagues who also have the MOTU MK3 Ultralite and have not experienced this feedback anomaly. A serial number check on 1 of therm showed it to be a more recent build.

P.S. I have 3 Hauptwerk colleagues who also have the MOTU MK3 Ultralite and have not experienced this feedback anomaly. A serial number check on 1 of therm showed it to be a more recent build.

Thanks for the reply - I'm glad I'm not alone! I don't use the MK3, but use the MK4 instead. I've been using it for more than 2 years and never had this happen before. I'm quite sure however it was the MOTU driver somehow 'going south', but I can't attribute it to any special action. The interface has been flawless except for that one instance. I did update the driver to the latest, but the prior driver was not old. Additionally, the change log for the new software only lists a graphic issue fix for the main MOTU program! I'm just going to hope my MOTU got it out of it's system, and will behave from now on. Again, thanks for letting me know of the issues you had. Your pain has given me comfort!

Regards,
Ray