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Stepper resetting to 000 when changing Comb file

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ns_organist

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Stepper resetting to 000 when changing Comb file

PostMon Dec 14, 2020 10:30 am

Hello,

I've just finished the upgrade to v6 and am getting familiar with the new functions of the Registration Stepper. I've started using the 'All Pistons Next' function, which I find very useful. However, I've found that when I change combination sets within a registration sequence (at first, I thought my 5 pistons configured to load Favorite Combs 1-5 would also be affected by 'All Pistons Next, but now realize that is not the case), both the Cued and Current frame are reset to 000 in the 'new' Favorite Combination set, and when I return to my origination Combination set, it remains at 000 (not at the cued/current step where I left off).

Was this always the case when switching between Favorite Combinations in earlier versions of HW? Is there a setting that I've missed that would keep my Stepper where I left off in the event that I switched Combination files (either intentionally, or my mistake) while stepping through a Registration Sequence?

Thanks,
Kevin
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mdyde

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Re: Stepper resetting to 000 when changing Comb file

PostMon Dec 14, 2020 11:45 am

Hello Kevin,

Thanks for upgrading to v6, and glad you like the 'All Pistons Next' function.

It's correct that in v5 the stepper's current and cued frame numbers were not reset to zero when loading a different combination set, whereas in v6 they are reset, since that was felt to be the more useful behaviour (given that we wouldn't expect people normally to be loading different combination sets whilst in the middle of actually playing a piece, and also given that when switching to a different combination set people wouldn't usually want to start from the same frame number that they were using last within whatever combination set was loaded previously). The changed v6 behaviour was also something that people had requested previously. This is the relevant entry from the v6 changes section in the release notice:

When loading a combination set the stepper cued and current frame numbers, the master crescendo, the last-used/lit master general (if any) and last-used master combination states sent via LCD panels and the MIDI console status output system, are all now reset.


There isn't an option for *not* resetting those things, I'm afraid.

I would recommend either:

a) Use the stepper's new editor functionality to copy all the relevant frames for the relevant piece of music into a single (e.g. new) combination set, putting them into sequence, thus avoiding the need to switch combination sets whilst actually playing the piece. Or:

b) Use the stepper's editor functionality to move/copy all of the relevant frames in each combination sets so that they start from zero (either in the same combination set, if the lower-numbered frames are all blank, otherwise into a new combination set).

(In v6 you can copy blocks of frames between combination sets.)

In general, my advice would be to avoid switching combination sets whilst actually in the middle of playing a piece anyway, since loading a large combination set could take a few moments, and potentially lead to things becoming sluggish whilst that happens (e.g. perhaps delaying MIDI notes slightly).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Stepper resetting to 000 when changing Comb file

PostTue Dec 15, 2020 6:39 am

Hello Martin,

Thank you for the reply. Honestly, this is a bit disappointing.

I understood (if my memory serves me correctly) that years ago - perhaps in an update between V4 and V4.3 - the issue of switching combination files while playing was addressed. I remember years ago (in the Crumhorn Labs days), changing between combination files did cause a slight delay (and the popup window existed on the screen for a few seconds longer), but after an update (around the big V4 update in 2011 maybe), the issue was resolved. I've been changing between Fav Comb files while playing for years without problems.

My console has 5 pistons which correspond to my first 5 favorite combinations. My other pistons are for general/divisional combinations and a few act as redundant couplers.

Here's my issue:
If I'm learning/playing a 'large' piece using the sequencer/stepper, I often what to take a break from practice, and just play other music – maybe a hymn or something simple. So in the past, I'd flip from using the sequencer to selecting one of my combinations files, then a master general that has the registration I want (Comb1 has range of mp to fff for hymn playing, Comb2 has an assortment of generals with solo stops, and so on).

Now, if I do that, then when I return to practicing/playing using the sequencer, I have to take numerous steps to reset the sequencer, where as in the past I just re-cued the frame where I left off. Perhaps I want to experiment with another combination during a sequence to hear how it sounds - if I select just one piston to change the comb file, everything on the console resets, and I cannot resume playing.

I wasn't expecting this to change, so I'm a bit disappointed that there isn't an option under preferences to reset or maintain the cued/current sequence, depending on user preference. If a user requested this and the change was made, can I (also as a user) request that I have the option to/or not to use this function?

Can this added to your list of requests for future updates?

Just to confirm - am I correct that there is no way to 'define' which pistons are included in the 'all pistons next' functionality - My piston rail includes master general and scoped generals (which are considered 'pistons' by the ‘all pistons next’ function), however the pistons which act as stops (div to pedal couplers, div couplers, fav combs) are not affected in the 'all pistons next'. Is there a way to define which of my pistons are included in this function?

Kevin
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Re: Stepper resetting to 000 when changing Comb file

PostTue Dec 15, 2020 7:30 am

Hello Kevin,

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I can see that it could indeed be useful for the stepper frames not to be reset in that case, and I've looged as a request that you'd like a new preference for that.

ns_organist wrote:Just to confirm - am I correct that there is no way to 'define' which pistons are included in the 'all pistons next' functionality - My piston rail includes master general and scoped generals (which are considered 'pistons' by the ‘all pistons next’ function), however the pistons which act as stops (div to pedal couplers, div couplers, fav combs) are not affected in the 'all pistons next'. Is there a way to define which of my pistons are included in this function?


Currently, the only option for it is the 'Organ settings | Organ preferences' setting "'All pistons trigger stepper +1' mode only affects master combinations", which (if ticked) prevents the 'all pistons next' function affecting combinations implemented natively by the sample set producer with the sample set.

I've also logged an enhancement request that you'd like an additional option for it not to affect master scoped combinations.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Stepper resetting to 000 when changing Comb file

PostTue Dec 15, 2020 7:52 am

Thanks Martin,

But, I do like that my scoped combinations are affected by the "all Next" function - I would like all of my pistons (Fav Combs, and those configured to behave as stops) to also be affected. I believe scoped combinations are currently affected, which is what I expected, and would like to continue - it's the addition of pistons configured as stops/couplers/combinations I'd like to have the option I'd like to see included (as a preference) in this function.

Thanks again,
Kevin
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Re: Stepper resetting to 000 when changing Comb file

PostTue Dec 15, 2020 8:11 am

Thanks, Kevin.

ns_organist wrote:I would like all of my pistons (Fav Combs


I've changed the enhancement request to say that you'd like an option for it also to affect all of the main Hauptwerk menu function pistons/buittons. (There would need to be some exceptions.)

ns_organist wrote:and those configured to behave as stops)


Are you referring to master reversibles (e.g. that are assigned to toggle stops), or do you mean MIDI drawknobs/tabs/switches/pistons that are assigned actually to control individual stops directly? (The latter might be tricky, due to the need to be compatible with all of the types of MIDI implementations that Hauptwerk needs to support for MIDI stops, e.g. for some digital organs' stops implementations).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Stepper resetting to 000 when changing Comb file

PostTue Dec 15, 2020 8:56 am

They're just pistons on the rail (3 x CMK Pro keyboards with 20 pistons under each). A few pistons are configured to activate Manual to Pedal and Manual to Manual (Gt-Ped, Sw-Ped, Sw-Sw4, etc) couplers. They toggle, in the sense that they remain 'on' until pressed again to turn 'off'. (they're not lighted pistons) 5 other pistons are configured to load Fav Combs 1-5. I didn't do anything special to configure them - just used auto-detect and mapped the pistons as the Input2- the Input1 and Output1 is used for my touch screens, which reflect the state of whichever coupler has been activated on the pistons rail.

These are the pistons that don't seem to be considered 'pistons' but 'All next' function.

Does that make sense?
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Re: Stepper resetting to 000 when changing Comb file

PostTue Dec 15, 2020 12:08 pm

Thanks, Kevin.

Yes -- that makes sense -- effectively you're using them as toggling stop switches. I'll add those notes to the enhancement request. (I'm not sure whether it would be readily technically viable for the 'all pistons next' function to work with those directly, but if not then master reversibles could be used instead, which you could map to toggle the stops from your MIDI pistons, thus achieving the same result.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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JulianMoney-Kyrle

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Re: Stepper resetting to 000 when changing Comb file

PostThu Dec 17, 2020 4:54 am

Kevin,

Hauptwerk can map any physical control that generates a MIDI code (buttons on your piston rail, Launchpad and other external MIDI controllers, physical stop knobs etc.) onto any virtual MIDI control (pistons, couplers, stops, tremulants, surround presets...). My understanding, therefore, is that when you use your physical pistons to control a coupler, HW doesn't regard that control as a piston at all.

The simplest workaround seems to be to assign the buttons that you want to use for couplers to HW reversible pistons, and then use the SET button to assign the virtual piston to the coupler.

I, too, have CMK manuals. The scheme that I use is as follows (all settings are global, not per-organ):
Lower manual (from L to R):
Stepper 000
Scoped pistons E1-5 (mainly used for pedal)
Stepper re-trigger current (very useful if you have second thoughts about registration)
Scoped pistons A1-5 (use as pistons for division I)
Reversible pistons F1-2 (use as couplers I-ped and II-I)
Scoped pistons A6-8
Reversible pistons A9-10 (use for tremulant and Cavialle-Coll ventils)
General cancel

Middle manual:
Hand registration (useful if I press a piston by mistake)
Stepper 0-4 (double as general pistons when the stepper is cued to 00x)
Stepper forward
Scoped pistons B1-5
Reversible pistons F3-4
Scoped pistons B6-8
Reversible pistons B9-10
Set

Top manual:
Unassigned - use for specific functions of a particular sample set
Stepper 5-9
Stepper reverse
Scoped pistons C1-5
Reversible pistons F5-6
Scoped pistons C6-8
Reversible pistons C9-10
Scope

I also have a Launchpad with the following functions specified:
Stepper frame x00 forwards and backwards, 0x0 forwards and backwards
Cued organ +/- and load
Favourite temperament +/1 and load
Floating divisions routes 1-4
(for some organs I have a matrix of 4x4 buttons for individual floating divisions)
dB trim +/- (useful as an on-the-fly volume control)
MIDI reset
General reset
Surround presets (where the sampleset allows this)

This scheme works for nearly everything, though on Caen I can't assign the ventil pedals to a HW virtual piston. I use the same buttons that I have already assigned to reversible pistons (A9, A10 for pedal and GO ventils, B10, C10 for positif and recit ventils) and double-assign them, so that their global function as reversible pistons still works (Martin recommends that you don't do this as it can result in unpredictable behaviour if you don't keep track of it).

Since the stepper has 1,000 frames I haven't yet exhausted the possibilities of the default combination set file, without having to create new ones. So, for instance, I can use frames 11 - 19 for BWV 565 and 31-44 for Franck's A minor chorale. I write the frame numbers on the score and use the same ones whichever sample set I am using.

I have also recently added a pair of MIDI foot controller devices (I can't remember what they are called) to give me 10 toe pistons, but I haven't worked out the best scheme for those yet. At the moment I am using one of them for the stepper and another to turn the page on my score-reading app.
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Re: Stepper resetting to 000 when changing Comb file

PostSat Jan 02, 2021 11:37 am

Thanks Martin and Julien for the advice.

The pistons I already have assigned to stops (HW Master Couplers) already function as reversibles, as far as I can tell - they engage when pressed once, and remain engaged until pressed again. The pistons don't light up (they are not the lighted type), but the state of the stop they affect is reflected in my touch screens. I do understand, however, that by configuring them as couplers, perhaps HW sees the pistons as stops, rather than pistons, therefore, the All Next function doesn't apply to these pistons.

So, I assigned master reversibles to the 7 pistons I have configured as couplers. I did not configure the master reversibles, and left the configuration for the couplers mapped to the original pistons. I choose the 'Both' option when using the auto detect to assign the master reversibles to the pistons as well as the couplers which were previously assigned. Although the reversible don't actually do anything (as they're unconfigured), having them assigned to the same pistons as my couplers seems to allow HW to now see the pistons as pistons - the all next function now works with those pistons when 'All Next' is engaged. When 'All Next' is not engaged, the coupler functions as it always did. I'm not sure if this is how you intended me to configure them, but it seems to work.

I cannot, however, figure out how to configure the 5 pistons I currently am using to load Fav Combs 1-5 as a reversible. I've tried to assign those 5 pistons to master reversibles, which HW allows me to do, and I select 'Both' master reversible, and Fav Comb01 (for example) for piston 1. The reversible seems to be ignored, and pressing those pistons still only loads the Fav Comb assigned to it, regardless of if the 'All Next' function is engaged or not. I cannot figure out how to assign 'Load Fav Comb01' (for example) to a master reversible - it doesn't seem to me that the reversible feature of remaining engaged until pressed again would be relevant to this type of control. Are you able to expand on what you meant in your previous post, where I think you suggested I map the control of Fav Combs to a master reversible? (Perhaps I misunderstood your explanation, and this is not yet something I can do.)

Thanks,
Kevin
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Re: Stepper resetting to 000 when changing Comb file

PostSat Jan 02, 2021 12:10 pm

Hello Kevin,

Assigning a MIDI piston to two different 'conflicting' functions (i.e. functions that would potentially interfere with other's behaviour) is risky, because it's relying on the specific order in which the two assigned functions happen to get triggered, which is undefined behaviour (and might well change between any Hauptwerk versions).

ns_organist wrote:So, I assigned master reversibles to the 7 pistons I have configured as couplers. I did not configure the master reversibles, and left the configuration for the couplers mapped to the original pistons. I choose the 'Both' option when using the auto detect to assign the master reversibles to the pistons as well as the couplers which were previously assigned. Although the reversible don't actually do anything (as they're unconfigured), having them assigned to the same pistons as my couplers seems to allow HW to now see the pistons as pistons - the all next function now works with those pistons when 'All Next' is engaged. When 'All Next' is not engaged, the coupler functions as it always did. I'm not sure if this is how you intended me to configure them, but it seems to work.


E.g. in this case it might happen to work how you want simply because the reversible might be triggered *after* the coupler, because when in 'all pistons next' mode the reversible would trigger a stepper frame, thus overwriting whatever state the coupler had just been put into.

ns_organist wrote:I cannot, however, figure out how to configure the 5 pistons I currently am using to load Fav Combs 1-5 as a reversible. I've tried to assign those 5 pistons to master reversibles, which HW allows me to do, and I select 'Both' master reversible, and Fav Comb01 (for example) for piston 1. The reversible seems to be ignored, and pressing those pistons still only loads the Fav Comb assigned to it, regardless of if the 'All Next' function is engaged or not. I cannot figure out how to assign 'Load Fav Comb01' (for example) to a master reversible - it doesn't seem to me that the reversible feature of remaining engaged until pressed again would be relevant to this type of control. Are you able to expand on what you meant in your previous post, where I think you suggested I map the control of Fav Combs to a master reversible? (Perhaps I misunderstood your explanation, and this is not yet something I can do.)


Again, this would depend entirely on the order in which the two functions happened to be triggered, which you can't safely rely upon. In this case currently (v6.0.1), I think the 'load fav comb' function would get triggered after the reversible, and the 'load fav comb' function would set the stepper frame to zero, thus overwriting the incremented frame name from the reversible (when in 'all pistons next' mode). Hence I don't think there's any way you could that to work.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Stepper resetting to 000 when changing Comb file

PostSat Jan 02, 2021 12:39 pm

OK. Thanks Martin.

So, if there a way to assign Load Fav Comb01 (for example) to a master reversible (and thus only have the piston configured as a reversible), but still able to load the Comb while allowing HW to see the 'piston' as a piston? I can't figure out how to do this.

Kevin
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Re: Stepper resetting to 000 when changing Comb file

PostSat Jan 02, 2021 12:47 pm

Hello Kevin,

No -- that isn't possible, I'm afraid. A master reversible can't itself trigger a menu function. I don't think there's any way within Hauptwerk (v6.0.1) that you could use any given MIDI piston to trigger a menu function whilst also having the 'all pistons next' mode affect it.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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