Cipheritis

I have a new setup:
Mac Studio M2 Max 32 GB, running Sonoma 14.2
New upgrade to HW8 (since I was trying to do a clean install onto the new Mac)
2 keyboards, connected via MIDI Out cables: a Roland C180, and an Axiom 61.

Here's my issue:
The Axiom runs fine. The Roland ciphers constantly (every half a minute or so). This is independent of whatever organ is loaded. The Roland plays fine on its own. It worked fine as a HW controller in v. 5 on a slower computer. I've tried turning it on and off, rebooting Hauptwerk. and swapping the MIDI cables, to no avail.

What might be causing this, and how do I fix it?

You left out the most essential detail, what audio/midi interface are you using, and do you have the latest drivers installed?

I bought an M1 Max Mac Studio in the beginning of 2023, and bought with it a Motu 24Ao. It wasn't until August they released a driver that would work properly with the M1 processor. Once I had that, worked like a dream. Nothing but problems until then though. I suspect you have the same problem.

[mdyde]

Hello Jeffrey,

To add to Larason2's reply, (as well checking that you have the latest driver installed for your MIDI interface, and that it's declared by its makers as being compatible with, and supported on, Apple-CPU Macs and the operating system version), and assuming that you're using a USB MIDI interface, I'd suggest making sure that it's a good-quality model (e.g. a MOTU Microlite, or Roland UM-One Mk2) and making sure that it's connected directly to a USB port on the Mac (not via a USB hub). Also, perhaps try a different USB cable if applicable.

I had loaded a fresh driver for the MOTU Fastlane when I got this computer. I checked back to make sure there wasn't something new, and they said that the driver was fine for OS 14.

I disconnected the Axiom and found that the Roland was fine, even running into the powered USB hub as I had been. I connected into the computer, and found some improvement in that I could play either keyboard without the problem. But I couldn't play both computers together without ciphering.

I just got a new USB C to B cable to replace the A to B with A to C adaptor that I'd been using. No improvement.

So is it correct that you only get ciphers when both keyboards are connected to the computer and turned on? Is it a MIDI driver conflict between the two? Do they have their own drivers installed, or is it a Mac class driver?

Yes, I agree it's a midi conflict of some kind. For instance, some keyboards send a "note off" message for every key every so often. In this case, maybe you're overloading the midi buffer. When that happens, you can get spurious note ons or missing note offs. Maybe try getting a separate cable/interface for each. Another solution may be to use a midi monitor app to find out what exactly is going on, then use something like the bome midi translator to prevent certain messages getting through if they're the problem.

[mdyde]

To add to others' replies, from on a quick look at the specifications for the devices you mention:

- A MOTU Fastlane is a USB-MIDI interface with 2x MIDI IN ports and 2x MIDI OUT ports:
https://motu.com/products/midi/fastlane_usb

- A Roland C180 organ keyboard has 1x MIDI OUT port but not direct USB capability:
https://support.roland.com/hc/en-us/art ... ifications

- An M-Audio Axion 61 USB-MIDI keyboard has 1x MIDI OUT port and also direct USB-MIDI output:
https://m-audio.com/products/view/axiom-61

If you haven't already tried it, I'd suggest trying having the MOTU Fastlane connected directly to the Mac via a USB cable (not via a USB hub), and then connecting both keyboards from their MIDI OUT ports to the MIDI IN ports on the MOTU Fastlane (i.e. using MIDI cables), *without* also having the M-Audio keyboard's USB port connected to anything. That should hopefully avoid any potential for conflict between two separate USB drivers/devices. Also, avoid having anything connected to the MIDI IN ports on the two keyboards, to ensure that MIDI feedback can't occur.

Also make sure that all macOS power-saving features are disabled, such as 'App Nap' (a.k.a. 'Power Nap'): https://www.lifewire.com/control-how-ma ... ap-2260788

If that doesn't solve it, with Hauptwerk not running, try running Snoize MIDI Monitor to see whether large quantities of spurious MIDI messages are being received from either keyboard:

https://www.snoize.com/midimonitor/

... which might risk a buffer flooding in the MIDI interface.

I've had both keyboards going through the Fastlane. I've considered trying running the Axiom through USB, but that requires buying another cable, and sacrificing another USB connection on the computer.
Here are the anomalies coming through:
The Roland is transmitting on both Channel 12 and channel 14; HW is receiving on 12. Nothing is on for stops etc.
Axiom is on channel 1. Every 1-2 seconds there is a transmission of "controller 47" info value 124 or 125. The Internet hasn't told me what "controller 47" is yet, and I need to get a manual to tell me why the Axiom is sending it.
The first attack of any session seems delayed and bumpy.

I found out what a cipher looks like:
I played an F# chord on the Roland and C major on the Axiom. 2 of the F# pitches transmitted on channel 1 instead of 12. All note-off messages were normal, ergo, The F# pitches didn't get a note-off. So why?

[mdyde]

Hello Jeffrey,

To confirm, do you mean that the Roland is sometimes transmitting certain note-on messages on the wrong MIDI channel (channel 1, instead of 12), as shown in Snoize MIDI Monitor (or equivalent), without Hauptwerk running?

The Roland's midi messages are getting corrupted. Definitely sounds like the buffer is getting overrun.

[mdyde]

Perhaps the Roland is simply malfunctioning erratically? Or the MOTU Fastlane? Or maybe there is some power supply issue, e.g. a drop in voltage to the keyboard(s) (or or MOTU Fastlane) when both are being used. Or some kind of electrical interference.

I had an old SY77 with stuck keys that I replaced the Roland with, and got the same result of misassigned MIDI channel info. And I see this is happening even when Hauptwerk is not booted. I haven't swapped out the Axiom with the Roland yet, but at this point, the likely culprit looks like the FastLane, which is older than dirt (I don't think it's the first MIDI box I've had, but I bet I've had it at least 20 years.). It does not appear to be the MIDI cables unless they're both bad. So I guess I'll be shopping for a 4-in (in case I want to add pedals and another manual)

I'd get a good, AC powered (not USB powered) MIDI interface then. I've had reliable service from my MOTU MIDI Express XT, for example.

I think I've got it licked.
I'd identified the FastLane as the culprit but I wasn't nuts about spending $140 on a new box just yet. So I got a USB B to A cable and directly wired the Axiom into the computer, running the Roland (where I had no choice) through MIDI. I figured that if both keyboards weren't going into the FastLane they couldn't get mixed up in the FastLane. And so it was, per MIDI Monitor. I had to reboot HW for it to see the USB input, but it's working fine now.

Thanks to all of you who offered helpful breadcrumbs toward a solution.