It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:02 am


Swell Pedal closes at end using Cakewalk and MIDI Yoke

Hauptwerk software technical support only. Please make sure you have read the manual, tutorials and FAQ pages before requesting support.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

PizzaPete

Member

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:44 pm
  • Location: Independence, Missouri USA

Swell Pedal closes at end using Cakewalk and MIDI Yoke

PostTue Apr 26, 2005 8:21 pm

Hi all,

A month or two ago I purchased Hauptwerk. I knew then there was one quirk but thought I would be able to iron the bug out.

The organ file I'm using is St. Ann's.

I use Cakewalk Home and control Hauptwerk through MIDI Yoke.

For some strange reason after a song it comple or if I pause and start again, the Swell Pedal closes.

Martin sent me a program to try and locate the cause, but with so much data flying by, even for 1/100th second I have no idea what I'm looking for. I suspect it will be related to a MIDI 'Note Off' signal but I'm not sure.

I have even tried turning every note on and off for every channel and still I didn't hit the correct signal

Does anyone have any idea what I should be looking for? I can upload the text output from MIDI Monitor and hopefully that would help.

I am building my new computer specifically for Hauptwerk and Milan's Skinner organ. This isn't cheap so I must know that everything will work without any hitches and before I spend any more money.

Thanks to everyone who can help.

Terry Mundy
Offline
User avatar

BachsFugue

Member

  • Posts: 443
  • Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 1:02 am
  • Location: Springfield, Ohio, USA

PostWed Apr 27, 2005 3:27 am

Howdy, PizzaPete,

I don't use Cakewalk as I have found that I like to work with musical notation rather than with the sequencer idiom. I accomplish the same end product with NoteWorthy Composer.

The expression pedals work with multi-point controllers or continuous controllers. When the value is 0 the swell is closed; 127 opens it all the way; the values in between open the virtual shades the corresponding degree. Here are the first eight controllers:
Code: Select all
0   Bank Select (coarse)
1   Modulation Wheel (coarse)
2   Breath controller (coarse)
4   Foot Pedal (coarse)
5   Portamento Time (coarse)
6   Data Entry (coarse)
7   Volume (coarse)

I use controller 2 for the swell enclosure and 4 for the choir. Sometimes MIDI programs will send a global reset for all notes (Note Off), controllers, and whatever else it sees fit to cancel.

Here's the disassembled MIDI of one of my expression tracks (notice the controllers at measure 1 beat 3 open the expression pedals all the way--the first measure is a "count-in" measure):
Code: Select all
Track Track #7 ******************************************
    Time       Event
   1: 1:  0 |Device Name | len=23    |
            0x4F 0x75 0x74 0x2D 0x31 0x20 0x55 0x53 0x42 0x20 0x4D <Out-1 USB M>
            0x69 0x64 0x69 0x53 0x70 0x6F 0x72 0x74 0x20 0x38 0x78 <idiSport 8x>
            0x38                                                   <8>
            |Track Name  | len=7     |
            0x53 0x74 0x61 0x66 0x66 0x2D 0x32                     <Staff-2>
            |Controller  | chan= 1   | contr=Volume H | value=127
            |Controller  | chan= 1   | contr=Pan H | value= 64
      3:  0 |Controller  | chan= 1   | contr=Breath H | value=127
            |Controller  | chan= 1   | contr=FootPd H | value=127
  67: 4: 24 |Controller  | chan= 1   | contr=Breath H | value= 92
            |Controller  | chan= 1   | contr=FootPd H | value= 64
  84: 2: 24 |Controller  | chan= 1   | contr=Breath H | value=127
            |Controller  | chan= 1   | contr=FootPd H | value=127
            |End of track|



I hope this helps.
Cole Votaw -- Springfield, Ohio, USA
Offline
User avatar

B. Milan

Site Admin

  • Posts: 4393
  • Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:15 am
  • Location: Sarasota, FL. USA

PostWed Apr 27, 2005 4:28 am

Hello Terry. I'm assuming you are using Cakewalk to play back MIDI files and this is when you are having the trouble with the swell pedal closing? Chances are there is some controller message data embedded in one of the tracks. You should be able to check it like this (I have Cakewalk Sonar XL 2.0, Home should be somewhat similar). Select the track you want to look at, or select ALL tracks to view data for each. Then go to View-Event List. This will show each piece of MIDI data that is being transmitted in Cakewalk. Generally a controller number like number 7 is the one used for a swell pedal. I've uploaded some screenshots so you can know what to look for.

www.milandigitalaudio.com/images/cakewa ... -track.jpg

www.milandigitalaudio.com/images/cakewa ... t-list.jpg

If you find an event that looks similar to the ones in purple on the event list pic, simply click on it and delete it.

Another problem may be if any general midi instruments are selected in the left menu on a particular track.

www.milandigitalaudio.com/images/cakewa ... -patch.jpg

These will sometimes trigger events to happen that you will not have control over. Many MIDI files obtained from other people will contain this information for general midi functionality.

Hopefully one of these will fix your problem.
Brett Milan
Owner
MILAN DIGITAL AUDIO
Offline

Calcant

Member

  • Posts: 184
  • Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 12:19 pm
  • Location: Darmstadt, Germany

PostWed Apr 27, 2005 6:07 am

The may be another pitfall:
In my Cakewalk Sonar 2.2 I always open "Option" before starting a project, go to "Project Options", go to the last line "Further Options" (or something similar, since I have a German version). Remove the tick "Reset Controller after playback has finished". Save the setting and return to the staves window. But perhaps the two other hints may have already settled your problem...
It´s a virtue to be well-tempered.
German speaking readers are invited to visit http://www.orgelbits.de for info about HW subjects.
Offline

PizzaPete

Member

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:44 pm
  • Location: Independence, Missouri USA

PostWed Apr 27, 2005 8:25 am

Hi Brett. You're correct, I'm using Cakewalk Home and have looked at the Event List. 7-Volume control does not appear. In fact, after displaying all channels, Volume control doesn't appear.

I would like to reset Hauptwerk to it's default settings. Is there a single button that will do this or can someone make a screen shot of each tab so I know how to change them back to default?

Is channel 7 the channel that control the Volume. If so, this single piece of information is the most helpful I've seen yet.

I also want to thank Cole who pointed this out to me in a message above.

With everyone's help, I'm confident this problem will be solved and I will be able to help the next person who has the same problem in the future.

Thanks,

Terry
Offline
User avatar

BachsFugue

Member

  • Posts: 443
  • Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 1:02 am
  • Location: Springfield, Ohio, USA

PostWed Apr 27, 2005 3:56 pm

Terry wrote:
Is channel 7 the channel that control the Volume.


I'm not sure if we're on the same page. The terms we're using may be at odds. By "Volume", are you refering to the Swell pedal position? If so, it has noting to do with any Volume setting. I'll post a picture of the Haupwerk settings that I use here: http://members.aol.com/votaroco/hauptwerk-enc.html

Notice that enclosures 3 and 4 correspond to the Swell and Choir manuals. The controllers are also here on a MIDI disassembly:
Code: Select all
  67: 4: 24 |Controller  | chan= 1   | contr=Breath H | value= 92
            |Controller  | chan= 1   | contr=FootPd H | value= 64
  84: 2: 24 |Controller  | chan= 1   | contr=Breath H | value=127
            |Controller  | chan= 1   | contr=FootPd H | value=127


Those codes for the FootPd and Breath controllers are the Swell (controller 4) and Choir (controller 2). They control volume by virtue of Hauptwerk recognizing them as the expression controllers.

(Maybe I need to reinstall Cakewalk Home?)

Again, I hope this helps.
Cole Votaw -- Springfield, Ohio, USA
Offline
User avatar

B. Milan

Site Admin

  • Posts: 4393
  • Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:15 am
  • Location: Sarasota, FL. USA

PostWed Apr 27, 2005 4:31 pm

By volume I was referring to the name of Controller 7 in Sonar. For example see here:

www.milandigitalaudio.com/images/cakewa ... ollers.jpg

Calcant has made a valid point as well which you want to check out. Yet another picture for you.

www.milandigitalaudio.com/images/cakewa ... ptions.jpg

Uncheck Zero Controllers When Play Stops. Although I never uncheck this and do not have any problems such as you are having.

Good luck and I hope these tips are helpful to you.
Brett Milan
Owner
MILAN DIGITAL AUDIO
Offline

PizzaPete

Member

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:44 pm
  • Location: Independence, Missouri USA

PostWed Apr 27, 2005 9:20 pm

Calcant's suggestion worked. In Cakewalk I went to Options|Project|MIDI Out tab and unchecked 'Zero Controllers When Playback Stops'.

All of your suggestions has raised my interest one more level. Now I want to learn how to control the Swell volume. What channel and such do I use. I'm zeroing in on the information, but just not quite there yet. With everyone's help I'll accomplish what I set out to do and be very pleased with my music.

Thanks,

Terry

Return to Technical support

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests