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Activating Setter Piston via Keyboard

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:40 pm
by sschaub
I would like to assign a shortcut key to the master Hauptwerk setter on/off function, so that when I press (ex.) the s key, the setter turns on, and when I press the s key, it turns off.

When I assign the s key to the setter on/off function, pressing the s key "bounces" the setter piston on and off.

Is it possible to configure Hauptwerk to do what I described?

Stephen

Re: Activating Setter Piston via Keyboard

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:02 am
by mdyde
Hello Stephen,

We actually intentionally made Hauptwerk v4 automatically only hold the virtual setter piston 'in' (or any other momentary piston) while the assigned computer key was held down, so that it would behave as closely as possible to the setter piston on a real organ and since we felt it would be more convenient (less key presses and no risk of accidentally leaving the setter on). The intention is that you would just hold the setter computer key down while you triggered whatever combination piston you wanted to programme (as with a real organ).

Is there some particular reason why you wouldn't want it to behave that way?

There's no way currently for you to toggle the setter on and off with consecutive key presses, but if there's a good reason why you'd find that more useful then we could consider adding that functionality.

Re: Activating Setter Piston via Keyboard

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:11 pm
by sschaub
mdyde wrote:...
The intention is that you would just hold the setter computer key down while you triggered whatever combination piston you wanted to programme (as with a real organ).
...


This makes perfect sense, Martin. I'm still new to the software, and I've been used to turning on the setter by clicking the mouse on the setter button, then clicking the mouse on the piston to set, then clicking the mouse on the setter button to turn it off. For some reason I assumed that, when I assigned keyboard shortcuts, the process would have to work the same way. Now that you explained how it should work, I am happy to discover that I can press and hold the s key on the keyboard, press the number on the keyboard I assigned to a piston, and then release the s key. It works very well that way.

Thanks for your quick response and explanation. I'm very happy with the behavior as designed.

Stephen

Re: Activating Setter Piston via Keyboard

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:06 am
by mdyde
Thanks, Stephen.

Excellent.

Activating Setter Piston

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:53 am
by engrssc
Something has caused the Setter to begin operating as a toggle piston instead momentary, that is needing to hold it in while setting up a combination. Originally the action was momentary per Martin's above reply: (way back in 2011).

Nothing has been (intentionally) changed. The physical Setter piston is definitely momentary. And "connected" using Auto-detect. There are no options available to return it to momentary operations by using the manual setup function. Other wise, it seems to function properly as far as saving any c/a changes, etc. The problem is, of course, accidentally leaving it on. The lighted divisional and general pistons are scoped.

The only other noticeable change is that the General Cancel also toggles meaning you need to push it twice before there is a cancel. I haven't had a chance to explore this issue yet. No one seems to have noticed when this change in the function "behavior" took place. And, yes, Hauptwerk is the lataet version. Appreciate any thoughts.

Rgds,
Ed

Re: Activating Setter Piston via Keyboard

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:16 am
by magnaton
Hi Ed:

My guess is a change has happened in your MIDI encoder board. Maybe the configuration didn't load correctly and thus defaulted to a base setting treating these inputs now as a toggle. I say this from a deductive standpoint in that 2 of your pistons now act differently and probably share the same encoder.

Danny B.

Re: Activating Setter Piston via Keyboard

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:06 pm
by engrssc
Further details, all the pistons connect to MIDI Hardware LITSW boards which are connected to a MRG2 master control.

https://www.midi-hardware.com/index.php?section=prod_info&product=LITSW

https://www.midi-hardware.com/index.php?section=prod_info&product=MRG2

Then to a MOTU Micro Lite which is bus powered thru the USB 2.0 connection of the computer..

https://motu.com/products/midi/lite/body.html.

There are no other noticeable issues altho I did reset the LITSW's back to the factory default from which we hadn't made (ever) any configuration changes. Earlier this AM I replaced all of the LITSW's and the MRG2.
No change in the toggling action of the Setter or General Cancel. I'm beginning to think about the HW software altho I can't reason how or why.

Rgds,
Ed

Re: Activating Setter Piston via Keyboard

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:14 pm
by organtechnology
engrssc wrote:Further details, all the pistons connect to MIDI Hardware LITSW boards which are connected to a MRG2 master control.

https://www.midi-hardware.com/index.php?section=prod_info&product=LITSW

https://www.midi-hardware.com/index.php?section=prod_info&product=MRG2

Then to a MOTU Micro Lite which is bus powered thru the USB 2.0 connection of the computer..

https://motu.com/products/midi/lite/body.html.

There are no other noticeable issues altho I did reset the LITSW's back to the factory default from which we hadn't made (ever) any configuration changes. Earlier this AM I replaced all of the LITSW's and the MRG2.
No change in the toggling action of the Setter or General Cancel. I'm beginning to think about the HW software altho I can't reason how or why.

Rgds,
Ed


Hi Ed,

When you set up Hauptwerk and connect the physical pistons to the virtual pistons, Hauptwerk currently gives you the choice of 'hold for setting' or toggle on off. So I would erase all the info on the setter piston and set it up again as you want it.

This may be v4.1 behavior.

Thomas

Re: Activating Setter Piston via Keyboard

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:22 pm
by engrssc
organtechnology wrote:This may be v4.1 behavior.


That's kinda my thoughts, Thomas. OTOH, Martin said:

We actually intentionally made Hauptwerk v4 automatically only hold the virtual setter piston 'in' (or any other momentary piston) while the assigned computer key was held down, so that it would behave as closely as possible to the setter piston on a real organ

As if HW has (somehow) reverted back to an older v 4.1 (original for this organ) of HW. I'm sort of tempted to delete HW and re-enter the (temporarily :wink: ) latest HW - V4.2.1 . Not sure how that would work, but I do have an identical cloned SSD as a back up. Also wondering if setting up lighted piston is involved? Can't think that is tho.

Rgds,
Ed

Re: Activating Setter Piston via Keyboard

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:14 pm
by engrssc
Another observation by a computer literate organist. (Presently I can't go to where the organ lives. Just had surgery and am house bound for bit). After connecting a screen and mouse to the organ computer, he found using the mouse to click on the Setter, both on the console screen shot and on the Setter button on the Registration page, that the Setter works in a toggling mode. First press turns it on,second press turns it off. He didn't check the GC. A software issue maybe? Can't quite figure. :?

Another observation, the HW version is 4.2.1.003

Rgds,
Ed

Re: Activating Setter Piston via Keyboard

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:49 pm
by engrssc
Finally was over to the church. Still can't figure out why the Setter can't be made to be momentary. Everything seems to be right. I downloaded the latest HW version from

http://www.downloadhauptwerk.com/win

Windows requirements
Hauptwerk 4.2 is supported on Windows 10, 8 and 7.
View requirements for further details.

Download details
Hauptwerk version: 4.2.1.003
Updated: 06/09/15
Type: .exe
MD5 (Full): 800083d8c6553fd99a4db9bfdd67c92b

and when using a mouse to click on the Setter it operates the Setter in the toggling mode, not momentary (on only as long as you keep the button pressed). Anyone else find the Setter to operate that way?

I'm thinking forgetting to turn off the Setter has caused many of our c/a problems.

Rgds,
Ed

Re: Activating Setter Piston via Keyboard

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:12 pm
by IainStinson
For the combination setter function HW has
an on/off control for the setter which engages the setter only whilst the control is held on and
a pair of controls - setter on and setter off where the on control enrages the setter until the off control is used

The first can be found in the first part of
Organ Settings | Midi/Key triggers for Master Pistons and Menu Functions...
The pair of controls are in the Advanced Items part of the same list.

If you use the first control you get the operation of the setter you want.

Re: Activating Setter Piston via Keyboard

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:51 pm
by organtechnology
engrssc wrote:Finally was over to the church. Still can't figure out why the Setter can't be made to be momentary. Everything seems to be right. I downloaded the latest HW version from

http://www.downloadhauptwerk.com/win

Windows requirements
Hauptwerk 4.2 is supported on Windows 10, 8 and 7.
View requirements for further details.

Download details
Hauptwerk version: 4.2.1.003
Updated: 06/09/15
Type: .exe
MD5 (Full): 800083d8c6553fd99a4db9bfdd67c92b

and when using a mouse to click on the Setter it operates the Setter in the toggling mode, not momentary (on only as long as you keep the button pressed). Anyone else find the Setter to operate that way?

I'm thinking forgetting to turn off the Setter has caused many of our c/a problems.

Rgds,
Ed


Hi Ed,

I just loaded a bunch of organs on a system today and I noticed that when I right clicked on the virtual setter and selected the first option, when I pressed the physical piston I wanted to be the setter the DONE highlighted and there was a tiny check box on the left side that said toggle this function. If you check the box, it toggles. If you don't it must be held in to set.

Is that what you were looking for?

Thomas

Re: Activating Setter Piston via Keyboard

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:51 am
by engrssc
Kinda quiet 'round here these days. End of summer doldrums (for those of us over here) maybe? :wink:

However, this problem of the setter piston toggling instead of being momentary (as it was originally) has bugged me. :roll:

Finally found the answer. When trouble shooting, I tell myself : "Self, don't overlook the obvious". Well, this time I should have listened to that advice. Then there's the adage that if you do what you've always done, etc.
Long story shortened, I didn't realize the setter piston was one of those rubber 'bubbles' (Conductive Keypad Switches) that so called shorts out 2 traces on a PCB. The final clue was when I jumpered the setter input at the encoder, the setter worked as it should, as a momentary. Measuring the (encoder) input voltage when pushing the setter piston, I read 4.56 VDC instead of the supply voltage of 5.2 VDC. That drop in voltage was due to the (series) resistance added by the rubber bubble of the setter piston. After using some of that contact "restorer"

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MUSIC-KEYBOARD-PIANO-SYNTH-REPAIR-Fix-Conductive-Keypad-Switches-Key-Contacts/181662188354

the setter again worked correctly. As a better cure, so as not to have to do this bit again, I replaced the setter piston with a (real) legitimate solid contact thumb piston. Part of my mental hangup was that I knew for sure the setter worked properly at the beginning. Another part of the issue was that MIDI Ox reported the correct Note On-Note Off, etc. I haven't completely figured why the lower (than 5 volts) caused the problem, but for sure that was it and the issue was repeatable. Will have to keep that in mind, i.e., if I want to change from a momentary to a toggle, lower the encoder input voltage (by adding a series resistor), hmmm? Dunno.

Rgds,
Ed