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Scoping of pistons

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Scoping of pistons

Postby B777Captain » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:23 pm

All...

Having trouble with the directions in the manual on how to do this.

For example.... some of my accomp pistons also affect the pedal, which I don't want. So I went to page 101 of the book and am now more confused as to how to make the accomp pistons ONLY affect the accomp stops.

Page 102:

Organ: Paramount 332:
Turned on the scope buton
Engaged all the accomp stops
Pressed A10 for my selection
Book then says do this for each other scoped piston, so I interpret that as just selecting other A9, A8, A7 and so on.
Clicked on Scope button to turn it off.

Then page 103 says turn on Setter button which I did
Engage the desired stops etc I want to capture (all of them again? **** Didn't I do this above???*** Confusing)
Pressed the scoped piston I want to capture (A10) which I did (again, all of them???)

Anyways, I'm obviously not understanding some meanings here..

Can someone offer a different explanation to the book? As I am reading the book, I don't see how I"m distinguishing between just simply setting ALL the accomp pistons to my organ pistons.

Does this make sense?

Thanks for any assistance.

Pat
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Re: Scoping of pistons

Postby mdyde » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:48 pm

Hello Pat,

The key thing to understand is that each scoped (='ranged') piston stores *two* sets of stops:

1. The set of stops that it affects (its 'scope' or 'range') and
2. The registration stored to it, within its scope.

Effectively when you programme the scope of a scoped piston you are telling it which stops it should *not* affect subsequently (i.e. which stops it won't turn on, or turn off, or capture).

You programme 1 when the Scope function is turned on and you programme 2 when the Set function is turned on.

For example, suppose you want scoped piston A1 to turn on the St Anne's Swell Clarinet and to turn off all other Swell stops, but not to affect any Great or Pedal stops (i.e. you want it to behave as a Swell divisional piston). You would then programme its *scope* to be all of the Swell stops (turn on all of the Swell stops and trigger the piston when the Scope function is on) and then you would programme its *registration* to be just the Swell Clarinet (turn on the Swell Clarinet, turn off all other Swell stops, and then trigger the piston with the Set function on).
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Scoping of pistons

Postby dhm » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:19 pm

mdyde wrote:Hello Pat,

For example, suppose you want scoped piston A1 to turn on the St Anne's Swell Clarinet and to turn off all other Swell stops, but not to affect any Great or Pedal stops (i.e. you want it to behave as a Swell divisional piston). You would then programme its *scope* to be all of the Swell stops (turn on all of the Swell stops and trigger the piston when the Scope function is on) and then you would programme its *registration* to be just the Swell Trumpet (turn on the Swell Trumpet, turn off all other Swell stops, and then trigger the piston with the Set function on).

I'm guessing you mean "Swell *Clarinet*" rather than Trumpet in the last two lines.... :lol:
Douglas Henn-Macrae
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Re: Scoping of pistons

Postby mdyde » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:38 pm

Thanks, Douglas. Sorry - yes - I meant to write 'Clarinet'. I've edited my original post to correct it now.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Scoping of pistons

Postby B777Captain » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:19 pm

Thanks Gentlemen:

So.... in the second part of the process, am I having to again set my accomp pistons to what I already have them set to?

For example. Lets say I have scoped on A-10, all the accomp pistons for the Paramount 332. And lets say I have accomp manual piston #3 set for 8 ft string, 8 flute and 4 flute. So, after telling the software that I only want my accomp piston #3 to change all or any accomp manual voices only, is it correct to say that I will again have to set accomp piston #3 to again set the 8 ft string, 8 flute and 4 flute.... even though it was already doing that... plus the unwanted pedal stops.

This is sooo difficult to explain vs simply seeing someone actually do this... which would be so much easier to understand.

You guys should make a video of the ways to change settings, set crescendo and other things like this that are a bit complicated to explain in words on your youtube pages!

Thanks

Pat
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Re: Scoping of pistons

Postby B. Milan » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:28 pm

Hello Pat,

Th Scoped pistons are completely independent from any pistons included on the virtual organ console. Setting a scoped piston has no effect on any Accompaniment pistons or any other pistons on the organ console, they are their own separate registration tools. You can use both the virtual organ's pistons in conjunction with the scoped pistons but one will not affect the other so they are set separately.

If you follow the user guide tutorial you will see there is no mention of needing to set the organ pistons (Accomp, Great etc.) separately.

Pages 102 and 103 clearly explain how to set and program the pistons, so you should just be able to follow those steps. Once done you still need to use the actual Scoped piston buttons for changing registrations, not the native organ pistons. You can also assign your console MIDI hardware to control the scoped pistons directly by right clicking on a Scoped piston and choosing auto-detect, just like you would with any other virtual control.
Regards,
Brett Milan
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http://www.milandigitalaudio.com
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Re: Scoping of pistons

Postby B777Captain » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:24 pm

Brett...

I have followed exactly the directions on page 102 and 103.... to no avail.

On page 103 when the directions say "Press the scoped piston you want to capture to". If I re press the scoped piston A-10 which I used for my first piston on HW software, all the accomp pistons activate because I requested the software to do just this on page 102.... so I thought maybe I should use the console piston I wanted to use eg, Accomp #3 for this step... but it didn't work either... which leaves no other pistons to select!!

What am I doing wrong?

Pat
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Re: Scoping of pistons

Postby B777Captain » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:25 pm

Is this a two step process? Or is it a 3 step process?

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Re: Scoping of pistons

Postby B. Milan » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:54 pm

Hello Pat,

It is a 2 step process, first defining which stops are associated with each scoped piston (with the Scope button activated, then turning on the stops, then assigning stops to a scoped piston) then second setting the pistons just as you would normally set any piston (with the Setter activated). I think you are just not understanding the function of what scoped pistons are and how to use them.

When you refer to your Accomp pistons, do you mean the Paramount virtual Accomp pistons, or the physical pistons on your console?

If you have assigned your physical pistons to other virtual controls (such as the Paramount divisional Accomp pistons) then you cannot use them together with the scoped pistons, it isn't meant to work that way, otherwise they will be fighting over the stops and causing incorrect registrations. If so, you would first need to cancel those MIDI assignments (right click on the virtual pistons, choose Clear all MIDI triggers..., then you can assign them to the Scoped pistons as needed (right click on the Scoped piston, A1 for example and choose Auto-detect, and set up as usual).

Once complete you need to use the scoped buttons themselves on the large registration control panel, *not* any pistons included with the virtual organ display pages. If you don't want to view the control panel after setting everything up then assign your physical MIDI pistons to the scoped piston buttons (A1, A2 etc.) making sure that your physical pistons are *not* assigned to other virtual controls.

Again, the master generals and scoped pistons are completely independent from any virtual organ pistons and will not affect their registration. Scoped pistons are an *additional* registration tool only. You cannot change the function of the virtual organ's pistons themselves.

I created a short screen capture video (Quicktime .MOV format) showing how to do a basic scoped piston set up. I didn't add any audio explaining each step since I figured it was self-evident and I am not set up at the moment to do voiceovers, hopefully this will get you going.

This basic example defines all Great stops to Scoped pistons A1-A5 then defines all Swell stops to Scoped pistons A6-A10. Then individual registrations are created for each of those pistons using the Setter piston.

It begins by showing that each piston is blank by clicking on A1-A10.

VIDEO
Regards,
Brett Milan
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http://www.milandigitalaudio.com
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Re: Scoping of pistons

Postby IainStinson » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:14 am

It might be helpful to think of setting which stops are controlled by the scoped pistons as a part of "configuring" the console (set scope). Setting a particular combination on one of these pistons is then the same as setting a combination on any other piston (set), remembering that only the stops "configured" to be managed by the scoped pistons can be included in any combination "set " to the scoped piston. (It is possible to set which stops are managed by scoped pistons at the level of each individual scoped piston.)

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Re: Scoping of pistons

Postby B777Captain » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:07 am

Thank you for the video Brett. That should give me the steps I'm confusing.

I do understand the scoping issue and that its apples to oranges regards to simply setting pistons. I have used the function before on my Allen 311 so I'm familiar. What I seem to have a hard time with is the steps in the instructions to follow.... they are just not so clear to me. I guess this aviation background in me is looking for a very plain black and white, step by step. Doesn't seem to be quite as clear as that to me.

I'll take a look at the video, Brett.

Thanks again!

Pat
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Re: Scoping of pistons

Postby B777Captain » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:24 pm

Brett...

I have worked thru your video a number of times but still....

When I get to the part of setting the "setter", since my pistons have combinations already in them which I desire to use, I am selecting the piston to activate the stops I want to set for that particular piston, but when I select that piston to activate the stops, it "de selects" the "Setter" mode...

So am I correct in saying that the only way to accomplish the actual setting of the pistons from the Registration menu to my pistons is to "hand register" them all since I can't select the preset pistons without losing the Setter function?

Thanks again for the great video, but still need a bit of assistance or explanation.

Pat
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Re: Scoping of pistons

Postby B. Milan » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:22 pm

Hello Pat,

Did you read my reply here?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9929#p72670

See the 3rd paragraph. You cannot use a single piston for both the native organ pistons as well as the scoped pistons, you need to choose one or the other.

The Paramount organs are created to cancel the setter piston once you set the pistons, so that is how it is supposed to work, it isn't a Hauptwerk setting, rather it is built into the Paramount ODF.
Regards,
Brett Milan
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