Search:
Submit Search


Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby maestropotvin » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:43 pm

Hello all,

I am working with a church that has an Hauptwerk organ using the 1903 Notre Dame de Metz sample set.
The church has a very dry acoustic and the sample set sticks out like a sore thumb.

Is there a way to dry the sample set or is there a dry version available.

Thank you,

Stéphane
maestropotvin
Member
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:18 am

Re: Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby Andrew Grahame » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:27 am

Any wet sample set can be reloaded as "simulated dry" by truncating the release tails. Reload the organ using the function "Load organ adjusting rank audio/memory options/routing and choose shorter releases.

At first, to save time, limit the loading to just a few stops. That way you won't need to wait a very long time while Hauptwerk generates a new cache. Test the result, then if you decide to try a different tail length then you can reload those same few stops quickly with a different release setting. Once you've decided on the best option you can then go ahead with the lengthy process of reloading the entire sample set.

Andrew
Andrew Grahame
Member
 
Posts: 770
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:51 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby mdyde » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:55 am

Hello Stéphane,

To add to Andrew's post, there isn't a truly dry (or drier) version of that sample set, so the only option you would have with it would be see whether truncating the release tails was sufficiently convincing. Since doing so can't remove the reverb from the attack/sustain portions of the samples, with very wet sample sets truncation is probably most successful when used in moderation (i.e. without truncating tails too short, which would risk sounding unnatural, relative to the reverberation audible in the attack/sustain).
Best regards,
Martin.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]

Image
User avatar
mdyde
Moderator
 
Posts: 10191
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby Andrew Grahame » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:18 am

Thanks Martin - I hadn't addressed directly the question of dry sample sets.

Only a relatively small number of sample sets have been released with dry alternatives. In the French symphonic style of the Metz is the Caen instrument from Sonus Paradisi. It does have a dry version, as do many other SP sample sets. However for the very best (in my opinion) of dry sample sets you should contact Charles Braund of Silver Octopus Studios.

http://www.silveroctopus.co.uk/

There is quite a difference between truncated release and the dedicated dry sampling of pipe sounds - the latter being superior by far.

Andrew
Andrew Grahame
Member
 
Posts: 770
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:51 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby Morse » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:14 pm

Hello Stéphane,

In my experience you do not need a totally dry sample set to sound good in an actual church environment. An almost dry set works very well, possibly with the tails truncated. For example, the two new american organs from Sonus Paradisi have reverb times of about 1.5 seconds, which is "almost dry" compared to the Metz. Two of the six channels on those sets are recorded "direct" which is very close to the pipes. If you use those channels with the tails shortened it should sound very natural in a dry church. Of course, the SP organs are not in the French tradition and that may not suit you.
Al Morse
Morse
Member
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:46 pm
Location: Maryland, USA

Re: Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby maestropotvin » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:48 pm

Thank you all for your very informative replies.

Now time to go experiment.

Stephane
maestropotvin
Member
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:18 am

Re: Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby organtechnology » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:36 pm

maestropotvin wrote:Hello all,

I am working with a church that has an Hauptwerk organ using the 1903 Notre Dame de Metz sample set.
The church has a very dry acoustic and the sample set sticks out like a sore thumb.

Is there a way to dry the sample set or is there a dry version available.

Thank you,

Stéphane


Stéphane,

If you have a 'DRY' room with no acoustic, you should use a 'Wet' sample set that comes from an acoustic of approximately the same size or a DRY sample set with added convolution reverb from an impulse response sample acoustic of similar size. The reason that it 'sticks out' is that the brain perceives that the sets natural acoustic does not fit the room size even if it were reverberant.

So a cathedral sample set is not going to be convincing in a dead, low ceiling room no matter what you do to it. The acoustic must fit the space it is played in. I do not think trimming is going to be very convincing.

Just my 2¢ worth ymmv.

Best regards,

Thomas
Complete VPO systems powered by Hauptwerk™. Real Wood Consoles, PC or MAC Computer Sound Modules, Audio for Home or Church.
info (at) organtechnology.com http://www.organtechnology.com

Authorized Hauptwerk Dealer; Milan Digital Audio Dealer..
User avatar
organtechnology
Member
 
Posts: 1599
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:58 pm
Location: DFW, TX USA

Re: Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby engrssc » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:54 pm

So Thomas, I believe I know quite a few of the abbrevs, but not ymmv.. :o
Care to share?

Rgds,
Ed
User avatar
engrssc
Member
 
Posts: 5057
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:12 pm
Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby Hoofdwerk » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:51 pm

Your mileage may vary...
User avatar
Hoofdwerk
Member
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:21 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA

Re: Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby telemanr » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:03 pm

All you have to do is type ymmv in google to get an answer. This applies to all those cryptic short forms for tired teenage thumbs too. You might have to add "acronym" if google thinks it's a word.
Rob Enns
User avatar
telemanr
Member
 
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:18 pm
Location: Brampton, ON, Canada

Re: Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby engrssc » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:23 pm

Who makes these things up? I see new ones almost every day. Maybe we should start authoring some new ones relating to organs, spose? :roll:

What did we do B4 Google? Believe it or not, I still have a dictionary. Now if I could only remember where I put it - - - - :? Think I'll ask Cortana if she knows.

Rgds,
Ed
User avatar
engrssc
Member
 
Posts: 5057
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:12 pm
Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby maestropotvin » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:33 pm

Thanks Thomas,

If I was in charge of the organ I would exactly what you suggest, but I am only a guest trying to help them. The organist bought the Mutin because it liked the sound. He did not take acoustics in consideration when making he purchase.

That being said I tried various simulated dry settings and it was not too bad.

Glad I now know about this.


Thanks,

Stephane
maestropotvin
Member
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:18 am

Re: Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby organtechnology » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:18 am

engrssc wrote:Who makes these things up? I see new ones almost every day. Maybe we should start authoring some new ones relating to organs, spose? :roll:

What did we do B4 Google? Believe it or not, I still have a dictionary. Now if I could only remember where I put it - - - - :? Think I'll ask Cortana if she knows.

Rgds,
Ed


ymmv does stand for 'your mileage may vary' but it means something like 'you may not get the same results in your case' or 'this is my opinion and it may not agree with yours' or well you got the idea now.

are we 8) ?

Thomas
Complete VPO systems powered by Hauptwerk™. Real Wood Consoles, PC or MAC Computer Sound Modules, Audio for Home or Church.
info (at) organtechnology.com http://www.organtechnology.com

Authorized Hauptwerk Dealer; Milan Digital Audio Dealer..
User avatar
organtechnology
Member
 
Posts: 1599
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:58 pm
Location: DFW, TX USA

Re: Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby telemanr » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:54 am

I think it's all to do with texting on cell phones which means thumbs only. Plus no one seems to be able to properly type on a regular keyboard anymore. It's all one or two fingers so folks go for anything that means less work.
Thank goodness I learned to touchtype (even the numbers!) But those days seem to be gone.
Rob Enns
User avatar
telemanr
Member
 
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:18 pm
Location: Brampton, ON, Canada

Re: Dryer Notre Dame de Metz

Postby scottherbert » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:21 pm

When it comes to texting, I'm all thumbs! :oops:

~S
"Life is just a dream, it is in death that we truly awaken!"
scottherbert
Member
 
Posts: 370
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:22 pm
Location: Southern Colorado, USA


Return to Hauptwerk instruments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Frank-Evans, lefranc22 and 2 guests