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University of Redlands, 1927 Casavant, 73 ranks, 4 manuals

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

University of Redlands, 1927 Casavant, 73 ranks, 4 manuals

Postby craasch » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:27 pm

We're happy to announce availability of our newest sample set. Details are available http://www.clrresources.com/redlands.

The instrument is a 1927 Casavant which has been carefully maintained and judiciously rebuilt. The original 1927 instrument is of 56 ranks. Rebuilds in 2003 expanded the stoplist to 61 ranks and in 2013 to its current state of 73 ranks. The 2003 rebuild was performed by Casavant, and the 2013 upgrade by Casavant with RM Ballantyne Pipe Organs. A detailed history including scans of the 2003 rededication program are in the History page.

The 2013 rebuild was overseen by Fred Swann. Many of the pedal ranks were made available in the Great for extra flexibility. Several composed pedal stops were also added. A digital system was installed adding the Harp/Celesta and several color stops (Solo Gamba/Celeste, Solo Orchestral Flute, Trompette Harmonique, and Chimes). We have emulated these stops with samples from our library, modeling the instrument as it stands.

All divisions, including the Pedal and Great, are enclosed in chambers with shutters. Solo, Choir and Swell are independent on the left of the hall, and the Great and Pedal are together on the right in a chamber with shutters.

The sample set is available for purchase for $395.
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Re: University of Redlands, 1927 Casavant, 73 ranks, 4 manua

Postby organsRgreat » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:51 pm

The audio files sound interesting, but I can't find out how to download the demo version. I get to this page:

https://www.clrresources.com/download/

which shows the following:

CPCLB Surround
CPCLB Surround download. Download all files, and install in ascending order, then the ODF file last

New file download

but can't find what to click to start downloading. Any thoughts anyone? Thanks!
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Re: University of Redlands, 1927 Casavant, 73 ranks, 4 manua

Postby lefranc22 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:18 pm

can't find out how to download the demo version

https://www.clrresources.com/redlands/download/
and click the "Download demo set" button.
install both files. Its a big demo: 4 keyboards and 22 stops; but almost dry. It needs about 2 GB in 16-bit.
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Re: University of Redlands, 1927 Casavant, 73 ranks, 4 manua

Postby organsRgreat » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:48 pm

Thanks lefranc22. Comparing the two urls shows that I had somehow landed on the wrong page; following your instructions worked perfectly. The .rar files downloaded quickly – about two minutes each, and I look forward to installing them later this evening. Another success for the Hauptwerk forum!
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Re: University of Redlands, 1927 Casavant, 73 ranks, 4 manua

Postby OrganoPleno » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:18 pm

craasch wrote:We're happy to announce availability of our newest sample set.
The instrument is a 1927 Casavant which has been carefully maintained and judiciously rebuilt.


I would like to recommend this Sample Set as being truly Outstanding. By my vote, "Best in its Class" for the sound of the American Classic Organ.
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Re: University of Redlands, 1927 Casavant, 73 ranks, 4 manua

Postby dw154515 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:32 pm

I REALLY want to like this set - done faultlessly, I would throw 2-3 times more money at it, but just from the demo set, I’ve found several major flaws: notes not articulating fast enough, audible looping points, etc. Even in the small demo set I can hear these, frankly inexcusable issues, so I’m hesitant to buy the full set, fully expecting the same issues to replicate themselves 10-20x more.

Anyone with the full set want to speak to this?
Drew A. Worthen
Master of Music in Composition - Butler University
http://www.drewworthen.com
Director of Music - Greenwood UMC
http://www.greenwoodumcmusic.org
Field Engineer - Sensory Technologies
http://www.sensorytechnologies.com
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Re: University of Redlands, 1927 Casavant, 73 ranks, 4 manua

Postby organsRgreat » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:01 pm

Thanks for posting these observations Drew – I only have the demo version, but need to think carefully before going further. You might like to have a look through forum comments on other sample sets from this company, as I seem to recall that some members have expressed concerns similar to yours.

Sonus Paradisi have a free version of their (smaller) Casavant organ at

http://www.sonusparadisi.cz/en/organs/u ... model.html

I found it helpful to compare the sound of that set with the CLR offering.
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Re: University of Redlands, 1927 Casavant, 73 ranks, 4 manua

Postby giwro » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:05 pm

dw154515 wrote:I REALLY want to like this set - done faultlessly, I would throw 2-3 times more money at it, but just from the demo set, I’ve found several major flaws: notes not articulating fast enough, audible looping points, etc. Even in the small demo set I can hear these, frankly inexcusable issues, so I’m hesitant to buy the full set, fully expecting the same issues to replicate themselves 10-20x more.

Anyone with the full set want to speak to this?


I have the full set, and I’ve not experienced what you report. A couple of caveats, however...

First of all, if you find looping errors etc, it’s always polite to tell the sample set producer before publicly trashing the set - one stray comment can completely torpedo a set. (And, there are thousands of samples in a set this size - errors do happen)

Second, the ambient samples do articulate “later” then the direct - this is to emulate the delay of the reflections for surround. If you find that you are having those issues with the direct samples, by all means do report those as well.

I’ve played the Redlands organ a fair amount (used to live in the town, and I was AGO Sub-dean in 2003 during the rebuild). This is a really good recreation of the organ, and worth working with the sampler to fix any problems you find that slipped through the cracks instead of dismissing it...

My 2¢
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
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Re: University of Redlands, 1927 Casavant, 73 ranks, 4 manua

Postby dw154515 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:15 am

giwro wrote:
dw154515 wrote:I REALLY want to like this set - done faultlessly, I would throw 2-3 times more money at it, but just from the demo set, I’ve found several major flaws: notes not articulating fast enough, audible looping points, etc. Even in the small demo set I can hear these, frankly inexcusable issues, so I’m hesitant to buy the full set, fully expecting the same issues to replicate themselves 10-20x more.

Anyone with the full set want to speak to this?


I have the full set, and I’ve not experienced what you report. A couple of caveats, however...

First of all, if you find looping errors etc, it’s always polite to tell the sample set producer before publicly trashing the set - one stray comment can completely torpedo a set. (And, there are thousands of samples in a set this size - errors do happen)

Second, the ambient samples do articulate “later” then the direct - this is to emulate the delay of the reflections for surround. If you find that you are having those issues with the direct samples, by all means do report those as well.

I’ve played the Redlands organ a fair amount (used to live in the town, and I was AGO Sub-dean in 2003 during the rebuild). This is a really good recreation of the organ, and worth working with the sampler to fix any problems you find that slipped through the cracks instead of dismissing it...

My 2¢


I'm certainly not intending to "trash" anyone's work as it's just not necessary. Its results, like any other creation, will speak for themselves.

Now, I certainly did not wish to start a debate on this. As I stated initially, I am a seriously aspiring fan. I WANT to own this. I WANT to love this. I WANT to throw money at this thing. But if I can, in 5 minutes, with only a tiny fraction of the full sampleset, find several VERY OBVIOUS errors, then I can only assume one of two things - 1.) my setup is some kind of anomaly and these issues are presenting themselves only to me or 2.) someone didn't adequately prepare, test, and perform their own quality control before releasing a product. Mind you, the demo is roughly a TENTH of the full instrument. I can only assume these issues will appear in other ranks, resulting in roughly TEN TIMES as many issues.

I am aware of the ambient samples. But that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Take the 8' Swell reed in the demo version - Oboe I believe - (forgive me but I am 500 miles away from my Hauptwerk rig at the moment so I don't recall the specific stoplist). Now, play a chromatic scale all the way up the rank. Do you find at least 2 -3 notes that do not articulate quickly enough? This has nothing to do with ambient samples.

Now, there is also a 16' pedal flue with very audible looping errors. Again, forgive me, but I don't have the set in front of me. Try it yourself. Please. If the errors do not present themselves on your setup, then I will look at my rig and see what might be causing the issues, but to be clear, it should not be the end user's responsibility to beta test these things.

The reason I even brought this up is because the very large 4M Hauptwerk organ that I am building for my local church - 56 audio channels - still needs a "go to" sample set, and this one REALLY looks great on paper! It has EVERYTHING that I am looking for. I WANT IT! I WANT IT BADLY! I WANT TO LOVE THIS THING! PLEASE MAKE IT WHAT IT DESERVES TO BE BEFORE PUTTING IT ON SALE!
Drew A. Worthen
Master of Music in Composition - Butler University
http://www.drewworthen.com
Director of Music - Greenwood UMC
http://www.greenwoodumcmusic.org
Field Engineer - Sensory Technologies
http://www.sensorytechnologies.com
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Re: University of Redlands, 1927 Casavant, 73 ranks, 4 manua

Postby engrssc » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:51 am

No need to shout ! :roll:

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: University of Redlands, 1927 Casavant, 73 ranks, 4 manua

Postby OrganoPleno » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:19 pm

dw154515 wrote:Take the 8' Swell reed in the demo version - Oboe I believe - play a chromatic scale all the way up the rank. Do you find at least 2 -3 notes that do not articulate quickly enough?

Now, there is also a 16' pedal flue with very audible looping errors.

The reason I even brought this up is because the very large 4M Hauptwerk organ that I am building for my local church - 56 audio channels - still needs a "go to" sample set, and this one REALLY looks great on paper! It has EVERYTHING that I am looking for. I WANT IT! I WANT IT BADLY! I WANT TO LOVE THIS THING! PLEASE MAKE IT WHAT IT DESERVES TO BE BEFORE PUTTING IT ON SALE!


I tested the things you mentioned on my own installation.

For the 8' Swell Oboe (both with and without tremulant, and testing all six octaves), I found only the low "A" to be very slightly slow in speaking. By my judgement, this is within reason for how the actual organ may well be speaking.

For the unstated 16' Pedal Flue, I tested all six possibilities. Three of them appear perfect to my ear, and for three of them there is at most one note apiece with an apparent looping error, each of which I would have to call "very mild", that is, rather subtle.

None of these issues, nor any others that I may have discovered, will in any way interfere with my FULL ENJOYMENT of this beautiful, rich, and satisfying Sample Set.

It seems the real issue here is the large-scale Professional Installation which you are preparing. Naturally, such an installation may have more stringent requirements than for the enjoyment of playing at home.

For these more stringent requirements, it sounds like some Custom Programming is in order.

Try contacting the maker of the Sample Set. Perhaps he will agree to correct whatever issues are required to bring the Set fully up to your own requirements. Or, such work could be contracted out to an independent Programmer familiar with Audio Files and the Hauptwerk Program. This would have to be with full licensed Permission of the producer, both as a requirement for courtesy, and also because the Samples as distributed are encrypted and cannot be directly edited or corrected.

"So near and yet so far" seems to be your assessment. Take the initiative, and FIND OUT what can be done to bridge this gap, and let your Church Installation play freely on the Organ of your Dreams!
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