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Christ Cathedral Arboretum - surround experiments

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giwro

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Christ Cathedral Arboretum - surround experiments

PostFri Oct 18, 2019 9:58 pm

Hi friends,

As many of you know, after taking over the sets from CLR Resources, we decided to do some upgrades of the sets, starting with the most recent set, the Redlands Casavant. The further de-noising, fixing bad loops and checking of every sample took over 3 months, and the set was transformed - all who have had the opportunity to compare the original with the re-do have commented favorably.

So, now we will begin working on some of the other sets, and to that end I’m doing some experiments...

One of our other best-selling sets has been the Christ Cathedral Arboretum Æolian-Skinner, so we’ve begun doing some experiments to see if we can increase the quality of it as well. This is a recording of the GT Principal 8’ (with the super coupler engaged). The first phrase is the direct samples, newly-denoised. Second phrase is newly-denoised ambient samples alone, third combines the two ranks.

As I said, this is the experimental stage - I think I’ll need to revisit the de-noising for the ambient samples, as they seem to have lost a certain amount of their reverb tail (something that can be tricky with ambient samples which are often at a lower amplitude). Also, since the ambient samples are softer, they probably need to be louder in the mix in order to have much effect.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RqTUuR ... p=drivesdk

I’d be curious to hear your reactions and see if your impressions are similar to mine.
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
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Re: Christ Cathedral Arboretum - surround experiments

PostFri Oct 18, 2019 11:58 pm

Hi Jonathan,

Maybe it's just my Android phone, and was gonna have a listen through my Bluetooth headphones, but when I click on the link to try have a listen I get a message saying "could not find any Google account and is exiting." No can listen to your file. :(

Marc
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giwro

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Re: Christ Cathedral Arboretum - surround experiments

PostSat Oct 19, 2019 1:13 am

1961TC4ME wrote:Hi Jonathan,

Maybe it's just my Android phone, and was gonna have a listen through my Bluetooth headphones, but when I click on the link to try have a listen I get a message saying "could not find any Google account and is exiting." No can listen to your file. :(

Marc


I verified that it is shared, and yes, sometimes android phones act weird with google docs
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
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voet

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Re: Christ Cathedral Arboretum - surround experiments

PostSat Oct 19, 2019 8:34 am

Jonathan,

For the benefit of people who do not own this sample set, I wonder if it would be helpful to hear the same things before you denoised them.

Just my 2 cents.
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giwro

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Re: Christ Cathedral Arboretum - surround experiments

PostSat Oct 19, 2019 10:47 am

voet wrote:Jonathan,

For the benefit of people who do not own this sample set, I wonder if it would be helpful to hear the same things before you denoised them.

Just my 2 cents.


Well, perhaps - but 2 things:

- I went back to the raw recordings, so “before I denoised” would be quite awful :mrgreen:
- the released set has no surround samples included, so there’s not much to compare to - this is more a question about whether people think adding the surround is effective/desirable/etc.
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
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Re: Christ Cathedral Arboretum - surround experiments

PostSat Oct 19, 2019 1:12 pm

Strictly an opinion, I think surround sound can be effective in a smaller space such as a home environment.
Not as useful in a large space such as a church or auditorium. Depending on where you are in a larger room, surround sound can confuse your sense of space.

Rgds,
Ed
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giwro

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Re: Christ Cathedral Arboretum - surround experiments

PostMon Oct 21, 2019 1:02 pm

engrssc wrote:Strictly an opinion, I think surround sound can be effective in a smaller space such as a home environment.
Not as useful in a large space such as a church or auditorium. Depending on where you are in a larger room, surround sound can confuse your sense of space.

Rgds,
Ed


I think you’re right, Ed.

The one other thing that I’ve found effective is that having both direct and ambient samples allows me to “place” myself at different points in the room, and that is helpful.

It will be interesting to see how this experiment progresses - I’m not convinced it’s worth the extra work yet (although we’ve received several requests for the surround option on this set). We certainly won’t do it if it turns out to be too much work for minimal return.

Best,
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
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Re: Christ Cathedral Arboretum - surround experiments

PostMon Oct 21, 2019 1:54 pm

Another more neutral thought, while many sampled organs really, in themselves sound good, I don't "recommend" sampled organs from large, very ambient locations (cathedrals) for use in medium sized churches for instance. Because what we hear doesn't match the real surroundings that we see in that case.

That's an individual call as far as personal preference is concerned.

A good friend has a large HW setup and almost all of his samples are from very large spaces. And yet, his music room, actually a plush home theatre is filled with all kinds of sound absorbing over stuffed furnishings. Gives me (and that's just me) of a something being wrong here feeling. That's listening thru the speakers. OTHO, playing and listening via a headset, I got a different, better feeling.

Not sure what adding surround sound would do, either adding to or taking away from this headset experience?

I found this idea of Sennheiser binaural orbit VST

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/ambeo-orbit

to be an interesting, sort of a pseudo surround effect. This, again, via a headset.

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: Christ Cathedral Arboretum - surround experiments

PostTue Oct 22, 2019 7:53 pm

Further experiments...

First is direct, 2nd is direct and ambient together, 3rd is ambient alone, 4th is together, with super coupler: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dqN_hH ... p=drivesdk

This reflects some changes in the ambient file - most (if not all) of the reverb is preserved now.

To my ears, it certainly sounds “richer” when the two are played together.
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
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Re: Christ Cathedral Arboretum - surround experiments

PostWed Nov 13, 2019 8:51 am

Jonathan,

Please continue your efforts and release the updated version in surround format. The ambient samples definitely enhance the sound!

Lawrence
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Re: Christ Cathedral Arboretum - surround experiments

PostWed Nov 13, 2019 10:55 am

Lougheed wrote:Jonathan,

Please continue your efforts and release the updated version in surround format. The ambient samples definitely enhance the sound!

Lawrence

I probably will, but Advent is fast approaching... so that means I have orchestrations to write, and all manner of other things to take my spare time. (There are 3-4 new sample sets coming, too!)

It does sound a lot “fuller”, so I’m pleased with that.
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
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Re: Christ Cathedral Arboretum - surround experiments

PostWed Nov 13, 2019 6:48 pm

Excellent news, Jonathan!

Thank you :-)

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