It is currently Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:37 am


Is ANLOO V2 coming??

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

lars.dietrich

Member

  • Posts: 8
  • Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:01 pm

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostSun Jun 28, 2020 6:04 am

James wrote:I am continuing to use Hauptwerk 4. I very much like Anloo 1. If Anloo 2 "out of the box" requires additional reverb, I will not be interested. I enjoy playing the samplesets I have with the original sounds in their actual locations. I prefer to just click on the organ in my favorites list and start playing. To have to do additional fiddling takes away, for me, the experience of playing the actual instrument, as much as that is possible with present day technology. Because I am a Mac user, the switch to Hauptwerk 5 with all my samplesets would take me over 75 hours to reload everything. If sample set producers do not want to accommodate people like me, I will not be able to continue to support them.
James


I disagree completely. First of all: Why does it take you over 75 hours to „reload“ everything? If this is true, then you are doing a lot of „additional fiddling“ already with each sample set, and then the additional step of 2 minutes to set up the reverb should not make any difference. It only needs to be done once, and is stored individually for the sample set.

And for me the most important point is the false assumption of THE „original sound“. What is the original sound? Recorded at the console? In the center of the church? Two meters in front of the pipes? Either you have to have dozens of individual recordings with hundreds of GB of data, or you could use a relatively small dry sample set and different impulse responses.

Finally, you will be excluded from almost all new sample sets in future, since most producers who use encryption will only support the new HW 5 (for good reasons).
Lars
Offline

seh52

Member

  • Posts: 224
  • Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:16 am
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA 90019

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostMon Jun 29, 2020 11:05 am

I love Anloo V1, and am quite surprised that V2 in HW 4.2 has even more realistic presence and clarity! I add as much reverb to it as I like from a hardware based surround reverb system. Congratulations!
Offline

OrganoPleno

Member

  • Posts: 595
  • Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:08 pm

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostMon Jun 29, 2020 5:31 pm

Enjoying the new Anloo 2 on HW-V. A very fine Sample Set.

The I.R. provided called "Anloo 2" as configured by default gives the impression of a Rear-Only Sample, and so cannot really be used alone. For those with a single Stereo Pair, such as Headphones, who prefer a somewhat fuller sound than is provided by the "Anloo 1" I.R... good results can be obtained by using the following Reverb Settings with the "Anloo 2" I.R.: Pre-Delay 15mS, Wet Mix 15%, and Level -2dB. Slider at 100%.
Offline

lars.dietrich

Member

  • Posts: 8
  • Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:01 pm

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostTue Jun 30, 2020 9:02 am

I also installed Anloo V2 (and since it has a different ID, you can use both the "old" version and the new one in parallel to compare).
It is absolutely great! The reverb settings with the impulse responses are so versatile and the samples itself are again noticeably clearer than in version 1. You can fine-tune the reverb, which makes perfectly sense, since in the "real" church the reverb also changes depending on the equipment (like curtains) and the number of present people.
I did not try the approach from OrganoPleno, but you can also easily use both provided impulse responses together for a single stereo pair or headphones. A very good configuration sample is given in the organ info.
I can only congratulate Gernot for this brilliant organ update; he really understands his stuff in sound processing, noise filtering and so on. I hope, that more and more sample set producers will at least consider supporting sample sets based on impulse responses in future. It is convenient, versatile and may reduce the required memory dramatically for large organs.
Offline

bourdon

Member

  • Posts: 122
  • Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:02 am

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostTue Jun 30, 2020 11:23 am

Thank you very much, OrganoPleno, for your very useful hints about the configuration of the IRs , especially ANLOO 2 alone but reconfigured to 15 mS and 15% wet mix, which I personally find a very satisfying solution .

Ortherwise, I'll try to mix both ANLOO IRs into one stereo output ,as L. Dietrich advises, but I haven't found yet the right screen in HW.
Offline

OrganoPleno

Member

  • Posts: 595
  • Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:08 pm

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostTue Jun 30, 2020 12:33 pm

bourdon wrote:Thank you very much, OrganoPleno, for your very useful hints about the configuration of the IRs , especially ANLOO 2 alone but reconfigured to 15 mS and 15% wet mix, which I personally find a very satisfying solution .

Ortherwise, I'll try to mix both ANLOO IRs into one stereo output ,as L. Dietrich advises, but I haven't found yet the right screen in HW.


The only screen we need is the Pop-Up called "Audio Mixer (for adding reverb...)".

On this screen, at the upper left, we see:
Mxr prst1: 'Stereo mix 1 (main/recording)'
Mxr prst1: 'Stereo mix 2 (headphones)'
Mxr prst1: 'Stereo mix 3 (sub-woofer)'
Mxr prst1: 'Stereo mix 4 (aux reverb mix)'
and so forth.

At lower right... "Audio output (device) channel(s)".

By default, one of the stereo mix busses (probably the first one, called "main/recording") will connect to your Audio Output device, as a single stereo pair... whether headphones or speakers.

By default, the other three stereo mix busses named above will say "None" for Audio Output device channels, so they remain silent.

Highlighting the stereo mix bus which already has Audio Output channels defined, then just up from there see "Impulse Response Reverb... Select".

Click select, then choose the IR called "Anloo 1". Default settings are good for solo use, or to follow the suggestions in the Anloo Info PDF you can dial down the WetMix from 17% (default value) to 12%... so that the combined effect of two different Reverbs will not be excessively wet.

Next, highlight one of the other Stereo Mix Busses named above. (For example, maybe the one called "Aux Reverb Mix"... since this is exactly what we will be using it for.) Under Audio Output, select some Audio Channels for this Mix. For headphones or for a single stereo pair of speakers, just use the SAME Channels as for the first Mix. In case you do have rear speakers available, select the appropriate Audio Channels for them here. NO NEED to otherwise define them or configure them (with Rank Routing and all of that) because the Default Setup enables a Virtual Surround Effect to be achieved just this easily! All Ranks going to All Speakers, but differentiated by their distinctive Reverb Settings.

Last, for this newly selected Mix Bus, under "Impulse Response Reverb"... Select the IR called "Anloo 2". The default settings here (PreDelay 23mS, WetMix 100%, Audio Level -23dB) cause this output, when used alone, to sound just like a Rear Sample (with no direct sound at all)... which is why it would not be used alone with these parameters. But by using this along with the "Anloo 1" IR on the other Mix, we have produced a "Virtual Surround Sample Set"... just this easily! At the lower right, click "OK" to Save and Exit.

Enjoy!
Offline

bourdon

Member

  • Posts: 122
  • Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:02 am

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostTue Jun 30, 2020 4:39 pm

.. Quite à track game :) but very clear ( you should write the instruction manuals !...)
Many thanks again for your precious advice !
Offline

lars.dietrich

Member

  • Posts: 8
  • Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:01 pm

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostTue Jun 30, 2020 4:56 pm

Exactly this is the way, how I set it up. It is quite simple (just 1-2 minutes), if one knows how to do :D Thank you OrganoPleno for the detailed description.
The only "issue" one has to consider is, that the audio recorder only records on the first master mix bus (i.e. with only Anloo 1 reverb), and if you enable the audio recorder also on the other master mix bus with Anloo 2 reverb, then two wav-Files are written. One for each reverb file.
@OrganoPleno: Do you know a simple solution for that? I could only imagine that one would have to add the reverbs on a "lower level" (on two intermediate mixer buses or even primary mixer buses) and the link these to the same master mix bus. Or is there an easier way to do this?

Regards,
Lars
Offline

OrganoPleno

Member

  • Posts: 595
  • Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:08 pm

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostTue Jun 30, 2020 6:40 pm

Post Deleted. Idea looked good on paper... but doesn't work!
Last edited by OrganoPleno on Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline
User avatar

IainStinson

Member

  • Posts: 1001
  • Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:08 pm
  • Location: NW England, UK

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostTue Jun 30, 2020 7:00 pm

If you want to configure the HW5 audio for Anloo recording and using headphones with both reverberations, you could try the following.

Select an audio preset to use. Make all the settings below in that preset.
(Take care that you do this -check each entry is for the selected preset!)

a. Set Bus Group 0001 to have the name None. Clear ALL the sends for that Bus Group.
b. Set Bus Group 0002 to have the name "main". Set this to send to Primary Bus 0001.
c. For Primary Bus 0001 set Audio Output Channel to the front stereo pair "speakers".
- set Sends to master mix bus to buses 1, 2, 3 only
- set Sends to intermediate mix buses to 1 only
- set impulse response to the Anloo 1 convolution reverb.
and set the parameters as recommended in the Anloo information sheet
d. For intermediate Bus 1 set Audio output Channel to the rear (reverb) stereo pair "speakers".
-set the Sends to master mix buses to 1, 2, 3 only
-set impulse response to the Anloo 2 convolution reverb and
-set the parameters as recommended in the Anloo information sheet.
e. For Master Mix Bus 1 set the Audio recorder Record audio (from the output of the bus) and
-ensure that the audio output channel is set to <none>
(No impulse reverb should be set)
f. For Master Mix Bus 2 set the audio output channel to the "headphones" output device.
(No impulse reverb should be set)
g. For Master Mix Bus 3 set the audio output channel to the "subwoofer" output device.
(No impulse reverb should be set)

In the Rank routing screen for the Anloo organ, set output perspective 1 to the group Main and set the
output perspectives 2,3 and 4 to the group None. Make sure you use the preset you have configured for the Anloo instrument.

If you want to add a second stereo pair for the Front output,
For Bus Group 0002 set this to also send to Primary Bus 0002.
For Primary Bus 0002 set Audio Output Channel to the second pair of front stereo "speakers".
-set Sends to master mx bus to buses 1, 2, 3 only
-set Sends to intermediate mix buses to 1 only
-set impulse response to the Anloo 1 convolution reverb.
and set the parameters as recommended in the Anloo information sheet

You can add additional pairs by using other primary mix buses and adding them to the list of
primary buses to which Group 0002, Main, sends audio.

How this works
The sound comes into the audio system from the the sample replay part of HW via Bus Group Main (because the ranks have been assigned to send output there).

Any sound from output perspectives 2,3,4 is not send on into the audio system since the Bus Group None does not send sound to any Primary Bus.

Primary Bus 0001 (and 0002 and so on if configured) adds Anloo reverb 1 and sends the sound to the front speakers and to master mix buses 1, 2 and 3. It also sends the sound to Intermediate Mix Bus 1.
Intermediate Mix Bus 1 adds Anloo reverb 2 and sends the sound to the rear stereo pair. It also sends the sound with the added reverb to master mix buses 1, 2 and 3.

Master Mix bus 1 "adds together" the sound it receives from the Primary Bus 0001 (and 0002.. if configured) and the sound from the Intermediate bus 1 and records the sum of the sound (all front with reverb 1 and rear with reverbs 1 & 2).

Similarly master mix buses 2 and 3 sum the sound sent to them and drive the headphones and the subwoofer respectively.

Hope this is helpful.

Iain
Offline

OrganoPleno

Member

  • Posts: 595
  • Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:08 pm

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostWed Jul 01, 2020 2:04 am

lars.dietrich wrote:Do you know a simple solution for that? I could only imagine that one would have to add the reverbs on a "lower level" (on two intermediate mixer buses or even primary mixer buses) and then link these to the same master mix bus.


Yes, that is the answer, but it should actually go just as easily as the other solution.

Again, we use only the "Audio Mixer (For Adding Reverb)" pop-up.

At the upper right, it says "Organ is routed to Mixer Preset 1" (by default, or click "change" otherwise).

So only the settings for "Mixer Preset 1" will be relevant to this Organ,

At left, we see the listings for Mxr Prst 1 through 8, with Mstr Mix Bus 1 through 8 for each of them.

The first entry for each Mxr Prst is labelled "Stereo Mix 1 (Main/recording)". By default, this is the only one that has an Audio Output Device selected, for a single stereo pair of speakers or headphones. Also by default, this is the only one that has the box for "Records Audio" checked, and it has "output of this bus" selected there.

Scroll down at the left, and the last line reads "Advanced Items". Click the little arrow to the left of it to show these items. Many items are now shown, in a long and repeating pattern.

At the top of this list, it shows for Mxr Prst 1 the eight Intermediate Busses, and then the Prmry Busses 1 through 1024.

By default, all of the Organ Ranks are routed through "Outp persp 1 (front 1/main)". This is seen as Prmry Busses 5,6,7, and 8 (which could handle the Ranks cyclically through Speakers 1,2,3 and 4).

For each of these four Primary Busses 5 through 8, uncheck the box which would route its output to Master Mix Bus 1 Stereo Mix 1 (main/recording)... the first item shown under "sends".

Also for each of these four Primary Busses 5 through 8, scroll down a little under "Sends" to see the Intermediate Mix Busses, and check the boxes for Intermediate Mix Busses 1 and 2. Check both boxes for each of the four Primary Busses.

Now scroll up at left to see the Intermediate Busses (again for Mxr Prst 1). For Intermediate Bus 1, check the box to send output to Master Mix Bus 1 Stereo Mix 1 (Main/Recording)... the first Item on the list for Sends. And at right on mid-page press "Select" to select the appropriate Reverb Setting. Select "Anloo 1", and maybe dial down the Wet mix to 12% per the suggestions included with the Organ.

Now for Intermediate Bus 2, again check the box to send output to Master Mix Bus 1 Stereo Mix 1 (Main/Recording). And for the Reverb, select "Anloo 2" with its default settings.

Now we are ready to go. Click "OK" at lower right to save and exit. Now all ranks receive each Reverb separately, and everything is then down-mixed for combined Audio Output and allowing for making a single Audio Recording from that Output, which now correctly includes both Reverbs.

Long to say, but should be easy enough to do. Enjoy!

This differs from Iain's suggestions in that it depends heavily on the Default set-up within Hauptwerk, whereas he defines everything from first principles. Also, my own Mix-Down has each IR represented once only, in parallel. Whereas his has them acting in series, such that IR #2 is acting on a signal which already contains IR #1. Additionally, this gives a double-dose of IR #1 in the final Mix-Down.

My sincere Thanks to Iain for his extensive discussion and documentation on these matters, found as the first item under "Technical Support" on this forum... without which I could never have understood ANY of this!

-- OrganoPleno
Offline
User avatar

IainStinson

Member

  • Posts: 1001
  • Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:08 pm
  • Location: NW England, UK

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostWed Jul 01, 2020 4:54 am

Thanks to OrganoPleno for his kind words.

To be clear, the set up I suggested sends sound with Anloo Reverb 1 to the “front” speakers via primary 0001 ( and 0002 if applicable) and sound with both reverb 1 (added by primary 0001 (and 0002...)) and reverb 2 (added by intermediate bus 1 ) to the “rear” speakers. Both the front sound (with reverb 1) and the rear sound (with reverbs 1 and 2) are sent to headphones (connected to master mix 2), to the sub(connected to master mix 3) and to master mix 1 (with no device connected) for recording (enable recording).

I have tended to set up my audio without relying on the HW default settings. I found the HW default naming not altogether helpful and not a little confusing. I also found that resetting the audio to the default settings (so I could start building up the configuration from a known setup) impractical as the “reset” resets all the presets for the configuration being used. If I had set up preset 1, and was working on preset 2, I could not reset preset 2 to its defaults without obliterating preset 1. You can of course use backup/restore to get back to a known good position but this needs care and good discipline...

Anyhow, Anloo V2 is a great update and allows the organ sound (a little more) reverberant than V1.

Iain
Offline

lars.dietrich

Member

  • Posts: 8
  • Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:01 pm

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostWed Jul 01, 2020 5:13 am

Many, many thanks to both of you, Iain and OrganoPleno!
I have drawn some diagrams to get through all this stuff. And I think - based on these two approaches and your detailed description - I really understood most of the stuff to setup up my own routes through the buses :wink:
Mainly the "parallel" vs. "serial" approach is interesting, and I recognized in Iains approach, that the first IR configured on the primary bus 0001 is finally doubled (since it routes directly to master bus and additionally to intermediate bus, which is then routed to the master bus, too after Anloo 2 was added). For that reason I set in Iains approach in step c. the following, which Iain not explicitly mentioned:
c. For Primary Bus 0001 set Audio Output Channel to the front stereo pair "speakers".
- set Sends to master mix bus to buses 1, 2, 3 only --> from the output of this bus (default)
- set Sends to intermediate mix buses to 1 only --> from the input of this bus
- set impulse response to the Anloo 1 convolution reverb.
By changing this, the intermediate bus gets the "original" sound without the Anloo 1 convolution reverb.
The master bus itself gets the output of primary bus 0001 (with Anloo 1) and (in parallel) the output of intermediate bus 1 (with Anloo 2 only). The result should be the same as in the 2-intermediate-buses-approach from OrganoPleno, right?
Of course then the Iains rear speakers will also only use Anloo 2 (but for me this has no effect, since I do not have any).

A bit off-topic:
Most confusion I had was related to the default 4 primary buses 0005-0008 for 4 speaker pairs and some automatic allocation algorithm (configured in the "Rank Routing" task card). I would only need this, if I have more than one main front speaker pair, which I then configure directly as audio output devices channels for these four primary buses 0005-0008, right? So with my single front speaker setup I could instead just configure a single primary bus 0001 for the main front speakers without any drawbacks?

Regards,
Lars
Offline
User avatar

IainStinson

Member

  • Posts: 1001
  • Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:08 pm
  • Location: NW England, UK

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostWed Jul 01, 2020 6:27 am

Last
set Sends to intermediate mix buses to 1 only --> from the input of this bus

The sends from the primary to intermediate and master mix buses are from the output of the primary bus, ie after the IR has been applied (same output as is sent to the “speakers”).

The Anloo reverb 1 is not really doubled. The recording sub and headphones receive the sum of the front speaker and rear speaker outputs, the relative levels of the front and rear outputs is preserved.


The Anloo information pdf suggests have front on reverb 1 and rear on reverb1 and reverb 2, hence I set up the recording to match this suggestion. You can, of course, set the Anloo upon other ways which may be more suitable for different settings.

Iain
Offline
User avatar

Tweedle_Dee

Member

  • Posts: 164
  • Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:58 pm
  • Location: Rainy side of Oregon

Re: Is ANLOO V2 coming??

PostWed Jul 01, 2020 11:07 am

Another happy customer. I admit being a little skeptical it would sound as good as other multi-channel sample sets I have, but you've made me a believer. With Anloo1 applied to the front speakers and Anloo2 applied to the rear, it sounds wonderful. I just tweaked the front reverb mix to soften the wet mix slightly. A definite improvement in clarity over rev1. And the 8' flute in the pedal is a VERY welcome extension. A very worthwhile upgrade in my opinion.
PreviousNext

Return to Hauptwerk instruments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: puciak and 4 guests