new Silbermann organ for HW

After "Jeux d'orgues", a free well-known liitle sample set for HW1 in 2000,
Joseph Basquin has just finish his new porject : a virutal Silbermann organ for HW.





You can find more infos and demos here : http://www.jeuxdorgues.com/jeux-d-orgues-3-silbermann/

Yes, this is a Jean-André Silbermann set, wet with multi release, and sounds absolutely gorgeous! Thank you Joseph for this wonderful release

Kind regards,
GrahamG

What a splendid instrument. I love it. The best of french and german styles together: thats a dream.

I downloaded this this morning, but am only getting to play with it in the last hour. So far:
well it's certainly got character!
The bourdons are all different. Quite nice.
The mixture breaks are very apparent, even in ensemble. Takes getting used to.
There can be quite a lot of chiff in some pipes, even principals. Whatever processing was applied seems to use this as a noise reference for the rest of the note, with some unpleasant artefacts in places. While not always objectionable with single pipes, it can get nasty with 2 ranks (particularly the bourdon+ flute on the positive). Some radical voicing should fix this (-10dB at 8k should do). I think some of this is due to wind-channel leaks on individual notes. However, I will accept that this is pure guesswork on my behalf.
The reeds, well, cleaning, regulating or a re-build might fix things. However, they probably are a good representation of the organ as it stands, apart from the bottom 5-6 notes, which sound decidedly weird.
The voicing page should remedy this, for those who care.
The entire character of a rank can change quite dramatically for periods of 7-8 notes or so. Whether this is due to different mic positions, different processing parameters or different people involved in the process is hard to tell. Mabye this is how the organ really sounds (a bit like Forcquallier).
Mostly, though, I like it!!!!
The echo is lovely, especially the bourdon. The cornet seems to only have 3 ranks, necessitating the bourdon and prestant to complete it. However, the prestant is a bit too prominent and bright for this role, especially for a echo division. Voicing to the rescue! (overall level down about 3dB. 4k up down 6dB should do it)
One very frustrating thing is the range. I went to play some Charpentier, but ran out of notes. Oops.
Despite all the above nit-picking, I like it. A lot.
However, for the price, considering Zoblitz has surround and is considerably better regulated, the lack of wind model is unforgivable.
Perhaps an update? Soon?

If I were to experience musical-gustatory synesthesia, I would simply say, "This Silbermann sounds delicious!"

I'm REALLY liking this set.
Extensions would be nice!!
BWV 751 (Yeah, yeah, its the son, really), rocks on it, especially using the echo for bars 18-25. Apart from the B. Or lack there-of.
(I HATE transposing on sight, especially if no choir is involved to motivate me.)
But, it does sound pretty with ped fl8, rh M8+Bd8 GO, lh Bd8, Nz 22/3 Rp.
I like the fact that it's a warts and all version of the real organ. (I also hate this!!!).
I should have time at the weekend to do some proper voicing, then will report back.

(Don't let my criticisms stop you getting this set. It IS good. Just not sanitised. It's far more real sounding than a lot of other sets out there, but that may mean taking the bad aswell as the good.
A bit like playing an ancient piece of wood and metal held together with bits of string, but without the sore fingers.)

Great work from Joseph.
And finally we got a fine J.A.Silbermann in our hands !

I was participating in Beta team for this set and tested even the very early betas a year ago.
The amount of work put in this set is beyond question.

Here it sounds gorgeous, as a J.A Silbermann must sound with all chiffs and stuff. I love them.

I did some demos for it, soon to be uploaded on site trying to use as many different combinations as possible (according to the piece of music used) to show up a small picture of how it really sounds.

I will most probably share this as HW4 midi files.
I had and still have a great time using this set. It becomes one of my fav.
The Silbermann reeds are superb.

Ok no wind model, but, it's not something that cannot be added in a forthcoming update no? Also left and right consoles ect.
Cannot compare it to Zoblitz G.Silbermann They are very different instruments with different philosophy - French<>German
Surround : When Joseph sampled the instrument the surround sampled sets where at their first steps or non existent.

At 99e it's a real winner.

very interesting organ, in my taste...i will listen to it carefully and be back:-)

Jonas Roman

OK, Demo uploaded.
Check it out. I tried to use as much combis as possible.

https://soundcloud.com/panos-ghekas/j-f ... rale-panos

very interesting organ, in my taste...i will listen to it carefully and be back:-)

Jonas Roman

You are the man to offer us a comparison between this sample and Arlesheim´s. They look very similar.

Now that I have had a little time without 18 hour work days intruding, just a few questions to the team involved.
Hopefully answers will arrive here, rather than to my e-mail address.
Why do the pipes sound close-mic'd, yet have an excess of reverb?
Why does the micing sound as if a cardoid was used, but the mic only moved every 6-10 pipes?
How were the multi-releases accomplished? WERE THEY RECORDED AS PRESENTED?????
Why do the top pipes pan? Even on the positive? The wind-chests are not divived.(Except for the pedal)

If the people involved can drag themselves away from their GO project,
any chance of the dry set, so I can fix the voicing, and place things in a proper acoustic?
(hint: do not remove the pre-delay in the returns. Also, the HW phase-alignment applies to the releases as-well as the attacks, otherwise the harp effects occouring in the releases here happen! Also, it helps to define a different emitter position PER PIPE to correctly model an organ, when using reverbs. It also helps to model the roof and rear of the organ case. The wind-chest is NOT a chamade!)
Or, can I have my money back?

Hi Murph,

Only Joseph can answer these questions, as he did the original recording.

You started out REALLY liking this set... and now seem to be slamming the minor issues. Technical questions like this would be better asked first of Joseph, and then once you have the response (or get no response for a week and want to get attention), posted to a public forum.

And your insinuation that the people involved are too busy on another project and won't be interested in working on the issues or won't be interested in creating a dry set is insulting.

Every sample set is a journey, a journey for the creators and for those who install it. And my journey with this organ so far has been wonderful. It is guttsy and flavorful and a joy to play. Yes, it is not perfect, but this is a virtual experience after all. I'm very pleased with the results. And while I hope that there is an update that addresses these concerns, I would be just as happy playing with what has been released.

Kind regards,
GrahamG

Hi there Murph.

You got me confused here a little :

I'm REALLY liking this set.
Extensions would be nice!!
BWV 751 (Yeah, yeah, its the son, really), rocks on it, especially using the echo for bars 18-25. Apart from the B. Or lack there-of.
(I HATE transposing on sight, especially if no choir is involved to motivate me.)
But, it does sound pretty with ped fl8, rh M8+Bd8 GO, lh Bd8, Nz 22/3 Rp.
I like the fact that it's a warts and all version of the real organ. (I also hate this!!!).
I should have time at the weekend to do some proper voicing, then will report back.

(Don't let my criticisms stop you getting this set. It IS good. Just not sanitised. It's far more real sounding than a lot of other sets out there, but that may mean taking the bad aswell as the good.
A bit like playing an ancient piece of wood and metal held together with bits of string, but without the sore fingers.)

then after this rock-on, you say :

Now that I have had a little time without 18 hour work days intruding, just a few questions to the team involved.
Hopefully answers will arrive here, rather than to my e-mail address.
Why do the pipes sound close-mic'd, yet have an excess of reverb?
Why does the micing sound as if a cardoid was used, but the mic only moved every 6-10 pipes?
How were the multi-releases accomplished? WERE THEY RECORDED AS PRESENTED?????
Why do the top pipes pan? Even on the positive? The wind-chests are not divived.(Except for the pedal)

If the people involved can drag themselves away from their GO project,
any chance of the dry set, so I can fix the voicing, and place things in a proper acoustic?
(hint: do not remove the pre-delay in the returns. Also, the HW phase-alignment applies to the releases as-well as the attacks, otherwise the harp effects occouring in the releases here happen! Also, it helps to define a different emitter position PER PIPE to correctly model an organ, when using reverbs. It also helps to model the roof and rear of the organ case. The wind-chest is NOT a chamade!)
Or, can I have my money back?

So, my question is, do you like or not this new set ?
Do you recommend it to other users ?
Is it close to original ? (supposing you are in Wasselonne and listen/play the organ often - or you did play on it in the past)
Can we have a good J.A.Silbermann Model in our environments or is it a crap ?
Wasselonne or Arlesheim ?
Value for money asked for what it is offered ?
Is it up to todays HW4 standards ?
Is it a quality set ?
In case of an extension and/or update, what wishing/should be on ?

IMVHO these are the points we should describe when testing a new set at our environment.

Did you listen to my demo on the cloud ? How does it sound in your environment?

For me, for example, comparing any new set with Jiri's masterpieces, is not a safe way to test it.
First comes the enjoyment I get from any new and then if I can use it to play/produce music.
For example : I don't like at all Litomysl set (very very personal tatse) because I cannot play on it as I would like (I believe the original is so too, as I never bein' there), I cannot thus say it's a crap or not well produced as a set !
AFAIK all sample sets are photographs of any instrument at the time of sampling. Especially pipe organs, they change EVERYDAY of every week to be more correct. So we can never actually have any virtual/digital reproduction of any instrument like having the real thing. We all play recordings with our sets. One can record the same instrument many times in different times and get different results on each recording.

I have just downloaded this wonderful instrument, and have spent only a little time with it. My impression at this point is that it is a real Silberman in a real environment. It is not fresh out of the restoration workshop, rather it is what we might encounter in real life. The voicing is a little uneven, the balance between ranks, and even within ranks, could be better, and I wish the compass were greater. However, this seems to be the authentic thing. Many of the sample sets I have are so fine tuned, denoised, balanced and tweaked that I would guess that sitting at the actual console would be a very different experience from the sample set. With HW 4 I can "correct" most of the so called problems, but I don't think I will. I like it just the way it is, and am thinking of sending the additional 100 euros. (Just thinking--I know I really won't : ) )
James

It is in French but you can get all the info of the real thing here :

http://decouverte.orgue.free.fr/orgues/wasselon.htm

Yes , the original has 49 keys per manual, and a classic Echo division where 25 keys are alive out of 49 !
Real !

The more I play with this beauty the more it becomes one of my favourite sets. Simple and powerfull.
I also tried St.Maximine's temperament...... wow !