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New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

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ldeutsch

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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostMon Feb 16, 2015 9:58 am

The Holst "March" builds to a very loud sound, but it is not the full tutti of the Skinner. Its about 80% of the full tutti by ranks, and 50% by volume. I left out most of the celeste stops, some small reads (e.g. the vox humana) and the Trumpet Royale. (Also, the obvious omissions of thing like the chimes and harp!) The Trumpet Royal is about as loud as the rest of the organ combined - which is exactly how it is voiced in the church. It is probably best used to play fanfares or solo lines over the rest of the organ.
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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostSun Feb 22, 2015 12:14 pm

I have loosened up the tuning. ODFs are available for the DEMO package (B3 download, https://server.fieber.nl/FolderLink/687 ... e741/false) and for those of you who have purchased the FULL package, a new ODF is available https://server.fieber.nl/FolderLink/5ca ... 1f0b/false
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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostTue Feb 24, 2015 1:00 am

Hello. Had trouble downloading the demo set. My Hauptwerk builder spent a lot of time trying to figure it out. Finally, he decided it was that the the demo wouldn't switch from 44.1 to 48 KHZ on the profire 610. Finally, we were able to load it by loading the Major I which is set at 48 KHZ. Could you check in to this? Thank you. Mr. Loren Omoth
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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostTue Feb 24, 2015 5:01 am

lomoth87301 wrote: My Hauptwerk builder spent a lot of time trying to figure it out. Finally, he decided it was that the the demo wouldn't switch from 44.1 to 48 KHZ on the profire 610. Finally, we were able to load it by loading the Major I which is set at 48 KHZ. Could you check in to this? Thank you. Mr. Loren Omoth


Hello Loren,

A sample set just specifies the sample rate it needs in its organ definition (usually either 48 kHz or 44.1 kHz) and Hauptwerk just asks the computer's audio interface to change to that sample rate whenever the sample set loads.

If the audio interface isn't switching sample rates then that's a problem within the audio interface, or a problem within its driver, or an application other than Hauptwerk is trying to use the audio interface at the same time as Hauptwerk but at a different sample rate (which is likely to prevent Hauptwerk being able to set its sample rate). It isn't a problem with the sample set itself, or Hauptwerk per-se.

Check that you don't have your audio interface locked to any particular sample rate (if it has a setting for that) and also that no other applications are running that could be trying to use the audio interface for audio output. In particular, if you're using Windows, make sure that you don't have your audio interface set as the default playback/recording device in Windows' control panel (otherwise Windows might try to play sounds through it while Hauptwerk is running).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostTue Feb 24, 2015 10:27 am

Hi Martin,

Hauptwerk works correctly on the St. Georges Casavant (44.1 kHz) and the Major I (48 kHz) sample sets in that these sample sets use 44.1 and 48 kHz respectively and work as expected. But if the FCCLA is loaded after an organ ODF set the rate to 44.1 kHz it does not switch to 48 kHz but gives an error. If the previous rate was set to 48 kHz it works as expected. Doen't that sound like an ODF error?

Thomas
Complete Hauptwerk™ systems using real wood consoles, PC Sound Engines, Dante Audio for Home or Church. info (at) organtechnology.com http://www.organtechnology.com
Authorized Hauptwerk; Milan Digital Audio and Lavender Audio reseller.
USA and Canada shipments only.
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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostTue Feb 24, 2015 10:46 am

I've posted of a similar problem in the past and what I discovered to fix it. As Martin mentions, if you are using Windows be sure your sound card is not set as the default in the control panel as another program such as Windows Media Player may basically take control of the sound card and not allow it to change rates. I was having the same problem, HW would load 48 kHz sets but would not load 44.1 kHz sets, I would get a error message. The fix for me was to go into the control panel under hardware and sound / manage audio devices, find each entry for the sound card you are using for HW and *disable / do not use this device.* In my case HW still sees the card and uses it for HW but no other programs will, thus allowing the card to change rates back and forth.

Marc
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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostTue Feb 24, 2015 5:54 pm

1961TC4ME wrote:I've posted of a similar problem in the past and what I discovered to fix it. As Martin mentions, if you are using Windows be sure your sound card is not set as the default in the control panel as another program such as Windows Media Player may basically take control of the sound card and not allow it to change rates. I was having the same problem, HW would load 48 kHz sets but would not load 44.1 kHz sets, I would get a error message. The fix for me was to go into the control panel under hardware and sound / manage audio devices, find each entry for the sound card you are using for HW and *disable / do not use this device.* In my case HW still sees the card and uses it for HW but no other programs will, thus allowing the card to change rates back and forth.

Marc


Thanks Marc,
I seem to be failing to make the point that Loren can load any 44.1 kHz sample set and any 48.0 kHz sample set except the FCCLA. That points to the FCCLA sample ODF.

Thomas
Complete Hauptwerk™ systems using real wood consoles, PC Sound Engines, Dante Audio for Home or Church. info (at) organtechnology.com http://www.organtechnology.com
Authorized Hauptwerk; Milan Digital Audio and Lavender Audio reseller.
USA and Canada shipments only.
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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostTue Feb 24, 2015 10:37 pm

Hi Thomas,

I recall quite some time back someone else here had a goofy problem where the pedal board wouldn't work or something like that because the sound card was enabled and it happened just on one particular set, so yes, it could just be something with that set. I'd still try what I suggest, it will take a whole 2 minutes to try it and if that doesn't solve it, no big deal to reset things.

Marc
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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostWed Feb 25, 2015 4:46 am

Hello Thomas,

There's just a single setting for the sample rate in the organ definition (ODF), so there isn't much to set incorrectly there. The only other possibility I can think of is that perhaps the ODF has something else in it that's invalid which is indirectly causing an error in Hauptwerk. Hauptwerk intentionally doesn't validate ODFs when loading them normally, to allow them to load quickly (validating them can be slow), but whenever a sample set producer loads an organ via 'Design tools | Load organ (with design options)' Hauptwerk will perform a full validation of the ODF, provided that the 'Skip all organ definition validation for speed [caution]' option isn't ticked.

Charles -- if you haven't done so already, perhaps try loading the organ once that way (without the 'Skip all ...' option ticked), to see whether Hauptwerk reports any errors in the ODF.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostWed Feb 25, 2015 8:32 am

I have not been able to duplicate this issue on a Windows 8.1 machine. I have set 44.1, and loaded new samples while playing a 44.1 MP3 in the background. I will continue to look at it.
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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostWed Feb 25, 2015 8:55 am

To answer previous questions regarding recording, the samples were all recorded and processed at 96K 24b stereo. They are saved and delivered in the set as 48K 24b stereo samples. I used a digital recorder with Audio Technica AT4040 microphones. The recorder was the Roland R26 or the Tascam DR44, using their internal preamps.

I'm sure there will be discussion around preamps and recording schemes, but the reality with large instruments with older chests is that this is a third order effect at most. The ambient noise from the wind lines and the chests is such that any recording noise is swamped by the ambient noise.
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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostWed Feb 25, 2015 11:33 am

The ODF was apparently generated by the CODM compiler. That makes an error extremely unlikely unless post editing was done. That seems unlikely since even the supplier name and ID numbers are unchanged from the CODM defaults.
Using Windows 7, I loaded St Annes at 44.1 KHz and then had no trouble loading either the demo or the full organ.
Al Morse
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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostWed Feb 25, 2015 12:36 pm

Al,

We did post process the ODF, but did not touch the parts that deal with the sample rate. In fact, I can recreate this "failed sample rate switching" issue using only the CODM version - but only on a Mac. I continue to investigate, but this appears to be Mac-specific.

Les
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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostWed Feb 25, 2015 12:39 pm

I should add that it is fairly simple to switch a Mac manually to 48000 Hz sampling. This is done by opening "Audio MIDI Setup" which is found int he Utilities subfolder of Applications. Then chose "Built-in Output" and select the appropriate sampling rate.

Of course, one shouldn't have to switch this manually - but it gives you a temporary fix until we can track down the real problem - which might be a Mac problem, a HW problem, a sample set problem, or some combination.

Les
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Re: New instrument: Skinner, First Congregational Church, LA

PostWed Feb 25, 2015 4:52 pm

Morse wrote:The ODF was apparently generated by the CODM compiler. That makes an error extremely unlikely unless post editing was done. That seems unlikely since even the supplier name and ID numbers are unchanged from the CODM defaults.
Using Windows 7, I loaded St Annes at 44.1 KHz and then had no trouble loading either the demo or the full organ.


Hi Charles, Les, et Al,

Thanks for looking into this for us. The computer is a PC with an i5 & 16GB RAM . The audio module is an M-Audio Profire 610. OS is Win 7 64bit Pro, HW 4.0 upgraded to Hauptwerk 4.1.1. The FCCLA is the DEMO sample set only.

We will see if perhaps we got a corrupt download by verifying the checksums and perhaps we should re-do the HW 4.1.1 using a full install?

Thomas
Complete Hauptwerk™ systems using real wood consoles, PC Sound Engines, Dante Audio for Home or Church. info (at) organtechnology.com http://www.organtechnology.com
Authorized Hauptwerk; Milan Digital Audio and Lavender Audio reseller.
USA and Canada shipments only.
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