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A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...
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adri

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A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostMon Jul 04, 2016 11:55 am

This is an important question/poll/enquete, and I hope you will all participate and provide answers. Thank you so much in advance.

I try to help mediate between sample set makers and organ owners, with varying degrees of success. Is it true that a sample set takes interest in the real organ away??? My goal here is to find this out!

1) has your desire to visit the actual organ of which you have a sample set increased? Or is the sample set of it enough for you? Explain and list the organs..

2) have you visited an organ of which you have a sample set, e.g. gone to a concert or played it yourself where possible? If so, which organs (list all)?

3) have you bought CDs of organs of which there are sample sets? Please list all

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! :D
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TheOrganDoc

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Re: A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostMon Jul 04, 2016 12:41 pm

I am sorry to say that the answer to all three questions is, No !

But I have Tuned, Regulated, and Repaired many Pipe Organs,
and know what I expect to hear,
and what sounds to expect from a sampled organ.

I most enjoy playing my HW Organ,
although it definitely falls a bit short of expectations. :oops:

It is far more enjoyable to play than any other electronic organ, that I have ever heard !

I most enjoy playing (in actuality) my organ, as I am 99% mechanic, and 1% Musician ! :roll:

I still love what Hauptwerk has provided us,
and look forward to sample set providers being able
with newer technology's, to provide even greater realism than they now do ! :D

Many thanks to HW, and all the Sample Set Producers, for giving us the ability to
play wonderful organs In our Homes ! Mel
Last edited by TheOrganDoc on Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mel..............TheOrganDoc...............
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hsiegers

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Re: A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostMon Jul 04, 2016 2:03 pm

Hi Adri,

Question 1: I noticed I've visited less organ concerts since I play sample sets, the need to go there is not as high as it used to be.

Question 2: Yes, I visit regulary the Hinz organ at Kampen to enjoy the full ambiance of the organ and church. The Milan sample set is (after finetuning by myself) my faforite sample set to play, but the full ambiance and sound is it worth while to go there and listen.
The Rotterdam sample set is also very good, Utrecht idem. I visit this churches once a year.

Question 3: Yes, no space left for all recordings, most of the Hinz Kampen. I have all sorts of recordings from many organs to get my inspiration to play. (I cannot read notes..)

Please push Brett Milan to record the tremmed samples of the Hinz organ and make this part 4 to buy...
Till now he will (whatever reason) not do it.... a pity!

Regards Harm
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ernst

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Re: A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostMon Jul 04, 2016 3:33 pm

Hi Adri,

1) Usually the sample set is enough for me. The exception is the Dom Bedos Model (Bartolomeo Formentelli, Rieti), which is my top favorite and of which I have many concert videos. If I could I really would like to visit the church and play that organ.

2) I visited the Hinsz Kampen organ (of which I had a sample set) when being in Holland. I had no chance to play it.

3) No, I haven´t. I have a large collection of organ music recordings, but the choices are based on piece/interpretation/organ/availability. That leaves no much room for specific organs.

I have bought quite many sample sets in the course of time, but I always get back to my number one i.e. Dom Bedos. I am very happy with the playing experience that Hauptwerk and the many excellent sample sets available allow me in the comfort of my own home.

Regards,
Ernst
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achenpigeon

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Re: A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostMon Jul 04, 2016 9:37 pm

I don't have the resources or the time to visit actual instruments, so I'm afraid that my responses will "skew" your poll a bit.
But I'll give this a shot.

1. Definitely yes. I would love to go hear some of the organs - especially Steinkirchen (Even among Schnitger organs the sound is quite special - in a good way!), Stade, Walterhausen, Kampen, Ottobeuren, Midwolde (I really like this instrument too, but the sampleset isn't the best), Krewerd, Buttforde, Prague Teynkirche etc.
Some samplesets also introduced me to organs I never previously knew of, such as Heuden, Rozay or Krzeszow. I would gladly visit those instruments too.

2. No, for the reasons outlined above :( I would love to, though.
3. Yes....? I do have quite a lot of Organ CDs, and have ones of organs mentioned above such as Stade, Walterhausen, or Ottobeuren. But the choice is usually informed more by playing than the organ (But there are exceptions when I love an instrument so much that I get all the available recordings I can have my hands on; for instance, I did this with the organ in Midwolde (a sampleset) and Uttum (not a sampleset) and never regretted it)

However, for some other instruments, well-made CD's of them are rare and hard to obtain, especially in the US. Such an example is Steinkirchen - I have one or two CD's of the organ (Could have more if I was a fan of E.P. Biggs and didn't think that his playing as mind-numbing), but I never knew that this was such a marvelous instrument before I heard and tried the sampleset.

I think Hauptwerk can indeed do more good than harm to an instrument's reputation. We all hopefully can agree that while our digital toys are fun (and the best we have), nothing can match the actual experience of being in the same room with a fine and famous organ, and such instruments will always have their fans. Often times, a Hauptwerk set, by drawing attention to a specific instrument, can actually increase the fame and renown of that instrument, and even perhaps draw in some cash for the owners (think how the restoration of the Smecno organ was funded in part through sampleset sales, and Sygsoft also donates some of the sales proceeds to the parish). It's easy for CD's of a given organ to be neglected and eventually hard to find, but as digital media, samplesets - and the sound they produce e.g. on Contrebombarde - will live on.
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sonar11

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Re: A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostTue Jul 05, 2016 7:29 am

Question 1 + 2:
Unfortunately due to cost, time, and distance, actually visiting the organ is out of the question for me. Most owners refuse access to visiting organists, or require music degrees etc. I know that I will never play those famous organs, so I don't bother trying either. Playing the HW version is the closest I'll get. My "desire" (to answer your question) doesn't really factor into it since it's a "pipe dream" :wink: I have visited one of the more famous dutch organs (at least to me, have few recordings of it and it seems to be popular) in Holland once a few years back, forget the name, it was in Groningen province and Sietze Devries was doing an easter concert tour. I must say that I knew the organ better than the organist at that time, and that organ was a definite pull to hear him play it live (I live in North America so chances to hear it are very slim).

Question 3:
When I buy CD's, it's usually based on the musicians, not where they're playing. I might buy a cd on a whim (not knowing the organist) if the repertoire looks interesting, but rarely due to the organ itself.

I think HW can bring much needed exposure and interest to the real organs (especially in these more early days of sampling), but for me the organ is not as important as the HW recording of it. I won't buy a HW sample just because it's famous in real life, the sample has to match my preference first (less reverb, more clarity, not too big, not quirky).
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162_Ranks

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Re: A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostTue Jul 05, 2016 8:25 am

1) Getting back to playing the organ on my own has VASTLY increased my interest in organ music and organs. I have gone to more organ concerts in the past couple of years since I started with HW than in the 10 years before.

2) Living where I do (west coast of the US) it is very hard to get to any organs of which there are sample sets, but I'd love to do so. Please sample the Grace Cathedral Skinner and I'll visit it!

3) I don't really purchase many recordings of any kind of music. I don't currently own any recordings of sampled organs.
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1961TC4ME

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Re: A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostWed Jul 06, 2016 10:20 am

Hello Adri,

Good questions!

1. As for desire to visit the actual organ which I own a sample set of, I have St. Max as an example, and would love to go see it in person. However, like others here have stated, time, finances and the great distance between us pretty much puts it out of the question, at least for me anyways. I will say this, no matter if I own a certain sample set or not, or if it's a case where there is no sample set available in the first place, my desire to hear and see the real thing in person is by far my preference and any time I get the chance to hear a real organ and visit the place it resides in does something for me that no sample set could ever do.

2. Unfortunately no.

3. My tastes in organs and organ music is pretty much anything goes from big to small and also from any time and disposition. I had a rather lengthy stack of CD's I had either purchased or downloaded from free sources long before I discovered Hauptwerk, none of which are of available sample sets, but a few of the organs are ones I sure wish there was a sample set available such as Versailles and St. John the Divine.

Hope this helps in some way.

Marc
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Lauwerk

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Re: A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostWed Jul 06, 2016 12:12 pm

Dear Adri,

I am afraid that your unusual query is one with which I may have evolved “too much” interest, at least with respect to question 3.

1 & 2. For a wide variety of shifting reasons, attendance at organ concerts never did or could become a frequent pleasure for me, including during the decades before I had ANY keyboard at home, much less after Hauptwerk. For example, in this current phase of my life I care for two invalids, my mother and my daughter, which greatly complicates free time and travel. Furthermore, most of my sample sets represent overseas instruments, so it is not remotely possible for me to consider visiting any of the sampled original instruments.
The only European organ concerts I was able to attend in the distant past were in a Dorfkirche at the west end of Austria and at a prison in Basel (a thoroughly enjoyable modern tracker). And at a free moment during the week that I gave a presentation at a Herpesvirus conference at Oxford U., I gravitated through a rear entrance of Christchurch into a seat behind the organ and basked in the end of a choir/organ rehearsal. American concerts have also been rare for me, though I did have opportunity to meet Jean Langlais and Flor Peeters at two of them.

3. Instead of live attendance through the decades, I have collected organ recordings, beginning with LPs when I was a teenager. When I did become a Hauptwerker in 2011, I was pleased and impressed with how many sampled organs were already represented among my CD collection. This seemed to speak well of the overall Hauptwerk endeavor. I have “coordinated” the two collections (CDs and sample sets) ever since, sometimes purchasing one or more (additional) CD(s) of a specific organ because of a related sample set. In two cases (Concordia U. and Esztergom), I obtained CDs of organs for which I only have experience with their sample set demos. And of course, there are sample sets that are not represented (to my knowledge) on CD for which “sibling” recordings are available: CDs of original Dom Bedos instruments (viz. Sainte-Croix de Bordeaux) for the Rieti Dom Bedos copy, and CDs of the Mühleisen instrument of Stuttgarter Stiftskirche for the nearly contemporaneous PAB (MUPA).

For better or worse, here is a list of the sample sets I have for which I also have representation on one or more professional CDs (i.e., not youtube downloads, etc.).

Aix-en-Provence; Arlesheim; Armley; Bonn-Beuel; Brescia; Caen; Cappel; Ditfurt; Doesburg; Doksy Kruh; Dortmund Sauer; Ebersmunster; Eenum; Forcalquier; Freiberg; Görlitz; Griebenow; Grossharmannsdorf; Haarlem; Hereford; Krewerd; Krzeszow; Leens; Litomysl; Melbourne; Metz Notre Dame; Ottobeuern (eventually both); Palma; Praha Tyn / Klosterneuburg (both); Rabstejn nad Strelou; Reinhardtsgrimma; Rötha Georgenk.; Rötha Marienk.; Rotterdam Haupt.; Rotterdam Transept.; Rozay en Brie; Santanyi; Smecno; St. Maximin; St. Michel en Thierache; St. Omer; Stade; Steinkirchen; Utrecht; Vollenhove; Waltershausen; Wasselone; Weissenau; Wernigerode; Zlata Koruna; Zöblitz; Zwolle

The connection between the two “collections” is a wonderful part of my amateur education.

Now that I have moved, you should make another trip to Hershey to check out the improved sound and wider selection. (Invitation open to all.)

Cheers!

Don
Don Vlazny
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eajohnson

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Re: A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostFri Jul 08, 2016 1:46 pm

1+2: Yes, it has increased interest in visiting and hearing the sampled organs I have collected. Hereford, Freiberg, and Zwolle would be of particular interest to me. Unfortunately I'm located in an area far from any of them and it is unlikely I will ever be able to hear them live. And so, one of the main attractions to HW--the ability to explore instruments I probably will never be able to visit, much less play!

3: Yes I have CDs of Freiberg and Cappel. I sought out a recording of Cappel so I could compare with HW.
Owner of an old Schober homebuilt, midified and Hauptwerkified.
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tf11972

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Re: A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostSat Jul 09, 2016 4:05 pm

1. Yes, indeed! My interesting in real organs was only higher when I studied at the conservatory. But Hauptwerk reminds me to visit and play more organs in the world.

2. Look at viewtopic.php?p=98828#p98828
The second organ I visited was Arlesheim and listened to a concert. Self-playing was possible, but was 60 CHF per hour, too much for my budget.

3. I own several CDs from sampled organs, especially from Great Britain (Salisbury and Hereford, Daniel Cook). Google knows them :wink:
Best regards
Thomas

Forestpipes - Virtual Pipe Organs
https://forestpipes.de
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romcat

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Re: A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostMon Jul 11, 2016 7:11 pm

1. The Mt. Carmel Skinner is about a 6-hour drive away. It's the first sample set I used regularily, and would be interesting to see and hear in person. The other sample sets I've got are from Europe, and air travel to Europe is not practical.

2. Not yet.

3. Got Priory Records' CD/DVD combo of the Salisbury Willis organ. It's beautifully done, but more than to hear and see the organ played, I got it for David Halls commentary, his thoughts on registration as well as other aspects of playing the organ. You also get to see the Gothic clock in action, plus interior and exterior views of the building. I also got a CD of the 1973 Marcussen & Son organ at St Laurenskerk in Rotterdam. I tried the demo version of the sample set for that organ, but haven't purchased it (yet).
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ajt

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Re: A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostTue Jul 12, 2016 2:16 pm

adri wrote:1) has your desire to visit the actual organ of which you have a sample set increased? Or is the sample set of it enough for you? Explain and list the organs..

Yes. Hereford, Salisbury (not that I own it). I now live about 30 minutes from Hereford, and used to live about the same from Salisbury.

adri wrote:2) have you visited an organ of which you have a sample set, e.g. gone to a concert or played it yourself where possible? If so, which organs (list all)?

Hereford, Salisbury. Played both (briefly), heard both.

adri wrote:3) have you bought CDs of organs of which there are sample sets? Please list all

Many! Hereford, Salisbury, again. And the priory DVD of Salisbury, etc.
Last edited by ajt on Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostTue Jul 12, 2016 2:19 pm

romcat wrote:I got it for David Halls commentary, his thoughts on registration as well as other aspects of playing the organ.


My son had a voice trial at Salisbury on my birthday a couple of years ago. We walked in, introduced ourselves to David, and my son proudly said "It's my dad's birthday today, and we got him a DVD of *you* playing the organ". Halls replied, "Weird. It's my birthday today too, but I didn't get a DVD of your dad playing the organ."

I imagine it was a relief to him that I didn't offer to make him one...
Adrian
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Re: A POLL FOR EVERYONE ABOUT SAMPLE SETS

PostThu Oct 06, 2016 12:28 am

I'm not sure where you are going with this poll or survey. Perhaps I didn't understand what you intended to do with all this information. I would think that any sample set would have great difficulty sounding like the original organ because of so many variables during the recording process. Are you playing this sample set through a two, four, eight or 32 channel system system ? Do the speakers reproduce the the sampled sound with the same realism and fidelity as the real pipes ? Each speaker type colors the sound its own way.
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