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Christ Cathedral, Garden Grove 1948 82 rank Aeolian Skinner

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...
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craasch

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Re: Christ Cathedral, Garden Grove 1948 82 rank Aeolian Skin

PostMon Dec 05, 2016 11:57 am

@Gerryo - Thank you for the detailed review. We did sparsely sample this instrument for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the we had limited recording time. The campus is very busy, with 12 masses per week and the associated rehearsals. Secondly it's an old school switching system, so the recording needed to be done by hand.

The reeds on this instrument are not in great shape. For some reason sometime within the last 10 years the scrolls on all of the swell reeds have been rolled all the way down. Part of what the parish hopes to do with proceeds from the sale of this sample set is to fix the voicing of the reeds. At that point, we will resample and send an update.

As you know, the voicing controls on Hauptwerk provide a great range for voicing. For example, increasing the "brilliance" or 3rd Harmonic by 3-6dB would change the Plein Jeu from flutey to more principal in character.

You may wish to take a look at our CPCLB Aeolian-Skinner www.clrresources.com/cpclb-aeolian-skinner from 1966. This instrument is in impeccable shape, and we did sample every note of every rank. We will be releasing an extended ODF of this instrument shortly.
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engrssc

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Re: Christ Cathedral, Garden Grove 1948 82 rank Aeolian Skin

PostMon Dec 05, 2016 12:23 pm

craasch wrote:You may wish to take a look at our CPCLB Aeolian-Skinner http://www.clrresources.com/cpclb-aeolian-skinner from 1966. This instrument is in impeccable shape, and we did sample every note of every rank. We will be releasing an extended ODF of this instrument shortly.


Totally agree with Charles here. I have this fine A/S example including the excellent acoustic background. Will be looking forward to the extended version as it will no doubt enhance an already good set.

Rgds,
Ed
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murph

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Re: Christ Cathedral, Garden Grove 1948 82 rank Aeolian Skin

PostWed Dec 07, 2016 7:30 pm

So you are finally admitting to have done a bastardisation of what hauptwerk is. How many samples per rank have you ACTUALLY done for the FCCLA skonner? 4?6?
If we wanted an Akai or a Gigastudio half-hearted attempt at an organ, we would be using them, NOT HAUPTWERK.
Why have you NOT admitted up front that you are faking it????????
When do you propose to fix the mulitude of errors in your sets, instead of telling the people who have purchased them to make do, or try to use voicing tools to fix looping errors? Release errors?
REFUND REQUIRED!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Unless you are ACTUALLY bothered about delivering a quality product, which seems quite unlikely.)
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Gerryo

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Re: Christ Cathedral, Garden Grove 1948 82 rank Aeolian Skin

PostThu Dec 08, 2016 12:03 am

I do consider stretching samples to be a compromise, but bastardazation? If you want to know how many samples are in a rank, it is not rocket science to open the appropriate folder and look. There are many more than 4 or 6.

Frankly this sort of drama is not what I would expect in here. I do not work for CLR, nor am I associated in any way with them, but it does not seem to me that there is an attempt to deceive. I may disagree with them regarding some aspects of this set(which are documented above) but I never tried to give the impression that I believed this vendor toe dishonest. If you got that from my review, I am genuinely sorry.

Let me reiterate what was said earlier. This is a good set. It has flaws, but it also has many good qualities. There are MANY sample sets offered for sale that are MUCH WORSE!!

This thread is about a specific product. FCCLA is a different product, and has its own good and bad qualities. I tend to wonder if our current computers could crunch the numbers required to do this instrument when you put the whole thing together without some sort of compromise like sample stretching? (What is it? 300 ranks or something?)In this case, shairing samples may be the only solution that realistically works

I want to go on record stating that I hope the set can be improved in time. For now, I have simply replaced the stops that I don't like with other samples from the CPCLB set. It works for me, and I definitely do not want a refund!
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engrssc

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Re: Christ Cathedral, Garden Grove 1948 82 rank Aeolian Skin

PostThu Dec 08, 2016 3:45 am

I tend to stay out of disputes or differences of opinion because generally that approach is counter productive. Most often it goes back to the glass being half full or the same glass being half empty. What brought me to this discussion is that recently ago I came upon a very old computer in storage that was running one of the first editions of Hauptwerk. Being that the computer booted up, (for "kicks") I gave a listen to this edition of H/W This during a clean out, decluttering project. The following I say with huge respect for Martin. There really is no comparison from that early edition to what we hear and see today. Big, big improvement. And to go back to that early edition, it was a thrilling experience when I first tried it and heard how much better it was than anything in the electronic organ world up to then. So bottom line, everything is a work in progress here and that includes sample sets. Having said that, I respect and take my hat off (but not during this cold winter weather :o ) to anyone working to make progress happen. And that includes CLR. Thanks for your efforts Charles. 8)

And every once in a while, each of us has had a bad hair day. :roll: No need to say more.

Rgds,
Ed
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mdyde

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Re: Christ Cathedral, Garden Grove 1948 82 rank Aeolian Skin

PostThu Dec 08, 2016 4:32 am

Gerryo wrote: I tend to wonder if our current computers could crunch the numbers required to do this instrument when you put the whole thing together without some sort of compromise like sample stretching? (What is it? 300 ranks or something?)In this case, shairing samples may be the only solution that realistically works


Just to clarify: stretching samples across multiple pipes doesn't actually save any CPU overheads or memory, compared to having one sample per pipe (since Hauptwerk was originally designed and optimised for having at least one sample per pipe).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mnailor

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Re: Christ Cathedral, Garden Grove 1948 82 rank Aeolian Skin

PostThu Dec 08, 2016 2:17 pm

I have to say that there are too few US organ samplesets, and any good effort at a reasonable price should be welcomed. It's not a bad thing to offer constructive criticism here, but let's not discourage a very positive development with statements about the producer's presumed business practices, please.
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1961TC4ME

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Re: Christ Cathedral, Garden Grove 1948 82 rank Aeolian Skin

PostFri Dec 16, 2016 1:32 pm

I'd love to check out the demo of the CPCLB (the one that's been fully sampled), unfortunately I don't have the time or patience to monkey around downloading Amazon apps onto my computer with free 3 month trials and so on (that will then bug you endlessly to buy) just because the file is over the download limit. All sample set producers I've come across so far that offer demos have a very simple way to download files without jumping through a bunch of hoops.

I'm looking to make a decision and buy a Skinner, someone's Skinner, like real soon. Any alternatives for download anyone is aware of for this set?

Marc
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DaveMax

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Re: Christ Cathedral, Garden Grove 1948 82 rank Aeolian Skin

PostFri Dec 16, 2016 3:56 pm

If you click on the folder you see for the CPCLB demo, several files become visible. I was able to download them individually without signing up for Amazon Drive.
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1961TC4ME

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Re: Christ Cathedral, Garden Grove 1948 82 rank Aeolian Skin

PostFri Dec 16, 2016 6:13 pm

DaveMax wrote:If you click on the folder you see for the CPCLB demo, several files become visible. I was able to download them individually without signing up for Amazon Drive.


Thanks, sir, will give that a try!

Marc
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