Skinner and Dingelstaed

I recently purchased both of these Sonus Paradisi offerings. They are extreme opposites in acoustics but share one common feature - superb, rich, and clear voicing. I have always preferred large acoustical sound and was reluctant to purchase the Skinner. While the acoustic is small, the sound is rich and clear. The extension from Jake is an excellent addition and bargain priced. This is a great practice instrument because of the clarity - but is a joy to play. I also purchased the Dingelstaedt after reading Marc's recommendation. The physical instrument is very unconventional and has tabs I have yet to figure out. Unlike the small acoustic Skinner this is a very reverberant sound. It is a beautiful set for French and romantic music. Franck and Widor adapt to this instrument as well as any Cavaille-Coll. I play very little Baroque so I would leave an evaluation of Baroque music on this instrument to others. I highly recommend both sets as they are excellent quality at a very reasonable price. Loaded in surround they both require a lot of memory.

Glad to hear you're happy with my recommendation of the Dingelstadt between it and St. Max it has become one of my favorite sets and gets lots of play time depending on my mood.

If you're into this kind of music >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT_t8QvhpE0 then the Dingelstadt is right up your alley and does very well. I also find it very good for your average 'run of the mill' church / hymn type music where it is very appropriate as well. Yes, it does have somewhat of an odd-ball layout but once you figure out the coupling it's fairly straightforward. Due to the acoustic which is big but not mushy and is rather clear, It can go from very soft to big thunderous sounds which is what I really like about the set given its moderate size and moderate price. It does also eat up some memory, I've been loading the direct 16 bit as I use just a little of it in the mix, the diffuse and rear in 20 bit and can squeeze all of it into 32 GB with a few to spare and it sounds great.

As for the new SP Skinner, I've been playing around off and on with the demo for a few weeks now, just can't quite bring myself to pulling the lever and buy it. I really like it but it's a tad too dry for me. I have St. Eucaire which is also on the 'dry' side but like it's acoustics better than the Skinner. The Skinner is very clear like the St. Eucaire, but if it also had it's acoustics I'd already have bought. I'm in a hold pattern still dreaming about that more reverberant Skinner to come.

Anyone? Anyone?

Marc

I'm in a hold pattern still dreaming about that more reverberant Skinner to come.

Anyone? Anyone?

Marc

Hey, how about the MDA next release of the Mt. Carmel Skinner? Good reverberation and I love, LOVE the specification; tuned percussions, 3 celestes, 2 solo reeds, 2 32' pedal stops, 2-bad there isn't a new revised edition forthcoming or news of such

Danny B.

As I stated I do not like dry sample sets. This particular Skinner is, however, very playable. It mimics, unfortunately, the acoustical environment of many of the churches where I have played. I tried applying convolution reverb. I have finally come to the conclusion that for my ear convolution reverb dulls and takes away from the natural sounds of an instrument. While necessary on the theatre organ samples, I felt it had a negative effect on the Skinner. This set requires a totally different approach to touch and release to keep a natural sound. Ideally an organist will be prepared for any acoustical environment and playing the same pieces on the Skinner and Dingelstaedt prepares one for the extremes in acoustics - but at a very reasonable price.

I'm in a hold pattern still dreaming about that more reverberant Skinner to come.

Anyone? Anyone?

Marc

Hey, how about the MDA next release of the Mt. Carmel Skinner? Good reverberation and I love, LOVE the specification; tuned percussions, 3 celestes, 2 solo reeds, 2 32' pedal stops, 2-bad there isn't a new revised edition forthcoming or news of such

Danny B.

Have I missed something? Last I checked (the other day) it was still a HW version 2 instrument and there's been talk (for a very long time) of a newly sampled wet Skinner from MDA.

Marc

And don't get me wrong, St. Eucaire is not at all dry, just more dry, but wetter than the SP Skinner and is why I say even if it was that wet I'd be a buyer. You can't discount that practice factor though and I too find out how sloppy I can get playing just wet sets all the time.

Agree on the convolution reverb too, it just doesn't cut it for me either and I am done with and will not attempt to apply it to any set. Either a set has the acoustics I like or it doesn't, but no fiddling, buy and play it as is or leave it alone.

Marc

Have I missed something? Last I checked (the other day) it was still a HW version 2 instrument and there's been talk (for a very long time) of a newly sampled wet Skinner from MDA.

Yes, it's still the original version, without multiple releases and many other features that are now expected for realism. The new version has indeed been in talk for a very long time and is much anticipated by many of us. The last official word was summer 2015, when MDA said that it was still too early to have any idea when it would be released. (And it had been talked about by them as being in the work for at least several years before that.)

The promised eventual new version is indeed complete re-sampling (also taking advantage of further improved acoustics in the church itself since the original version), not just a tweaking of the original audio.

An email to Brett produced no response. I do think our collective loyal following and continued support deserve some forum response.

[B. Milan]

Hello everyone,

Here's the facts about the Skinner.

- We completely re-recorded the organ with all of the latest techniques.

- We used about 4-5 different microphone options, some that have not been done by anyone at this stage (we cannot say at this time what those will or might be).

- The acoustics are completely different (longer) than the original as all carpet was removed from the church. It almost sounds like a different instrument (for the better of course).

- We do not have a timeline for when it may be available, sorry.

- Constantly asking us when it will be available will not change any of the above.

I hope this might answer your questions for now. When we have news we will announce it.

Thank you!

Brett, thank you for the update! As always, looking forward to it. I'm sure the periodic pestering about a release date is just a show of enthusiasm...

This thread was originally about an Aeolian-Skinner (not Skinner) sampleset, and this one that SP recently released is very well done.

But a new MDA Mt. Carmel wet or surround version will be *The* Skinner sampleset. As in E.M. Skinner and a terrific organ.

The Aeolian-Skinner samplesets don't live in the same musical world, as fine as they are.

O.K, so at least I haven't missed anything. Yes, this thread was started concerning the new SP Skinner, it is nice but I'll wait it out. Meanwhile, what I did is search out what would cover the bases for now. For those of you (like me) that can't wait, who especially want the big acoustic, and also want to add a very fine instrument to your lineup for a very reasonable figure, Dingelstadt is about as 'Skinnerish' as it's gonna get for now.

Marc