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Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby jharmon » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:16 pm

Brad -just curious, did you try 16 bit loading? I know Jiri recemmends not using 16 bit, but I, who also have Mac at 32MB, am hard pressed to hear any real difference in the bit rates.
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Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby Gerryo » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:24 pm

Brad,

I loaded the organ with 6 channels, 24 bit, but deleted the sampled terms, and it took around 30 gigs

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Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby 162_Ranks » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:51 pm

Nice, that means that 20 bits should fit well within the 32GB. I might pull the trigger, I'm really enjoying the demo set.
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Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby jcrowley » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:10 pm

Bravo Jeri! This instrument is spectacular in every way! I am looking forward to my future purchase. Incidentally we have a newer Parsons Organ with Manuel Rosales voicing right here in little old Madison, Wisconsin at St. Stephen's Lutheran Church. The case is stunningly traditional, yet asymmetrically balanced. It is only two manuals but covers all the bases with the beautiful voicing by Mr. Rosales. http://www.parsonsorgans.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/DSCN2371.jpg
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Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby eajohnson » Fri May 12, 2017 1:27 pm

David Higgs is giving a recital on this organ Friday, May 19
From the Trinity website:

Crozier Memorial Organ Concert: David Higgs
Friday, May 19
7:00 p.m., Cathedral. Acclaimed American concert organist David Higgs performs a solo recital on the magnificent Rosales Organ. Free to the public.

This will be my first chance to hear an organ that has been sampled for Hauptwerk!
Owner of an old Schober homebuilt, midified and Hauptwerkified.
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Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby ChrisKeller » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:18 pm

I just bought the Rosales set; after playing one hour I must say: this is for me possibly the best sample set I have. I cannot say exactly why as the Görlitz or the Skinner and all the other sets by Jiri are amazing for me. I think it is the outstanding voicing of this organ by Manuel Rosales. The Cromorne comes from heaven directly, and the reeds at all: unbelievable. Jiri is topping every last set with the next one. Jiri, thank you for this instrument - I hope, I will play a recital there in Portland in future....

Best wishes, Chris
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Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby Romanos » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:04 pm

Soon I hope to sell my piano (downsizing due to cross-country move) and this will be one of my first purchases since my organ is coming with me.
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Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby Romanos » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:28 pm

Hello All--
Merry Christmas to me, I'm the newest owner of the Rosales. It's quite thrilling. I was wondering if anyone can enlighten me on the following:

I love the direct channels in the front and I find the "diffuse" channels very nice too. I really have little use for the "rear" since they are so far from the pipes, and the room doesn't have cathedral acoustics, so it really doesn't seem worth the ram pressure. That said, I find the way SP has set up the faders a tad frustrating. I'd like to turn up the diffuse while keeping the direct at full or near full volume. That would add spaciousness but keep the clarity. Unfortunately, the faders are set up so that it is one or the other. Drag the fader more than 25% away from direct and you're looking at a fairly noticeable volume drop without the benefit of having the diffuse at 100%. In some contexts, I admit, it is really neat to experiment with moving the fader back and forth (I've even mapped it to a spare swell pedal so I can compare takes from one perspective or the other quickly) but ultimately I'd get much more utility out of keeping direct 100% and adding in diffuse like you would normally add in rear (and not load rear at all). Is there anyone who has done a custom ODF to swap the diffuse to the rear fader? If not, is this possible and could anyone guide me on how to do it?
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Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby 1961TC4ME » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:02 pm

That's actually a pretty simple workaround. I don't know if you're wanting to send the same 2 signals (direct and diffuse) to the same pair or group of speakers, or send direct to the front speakers and diffuse to the rear speakers, but all you'd need to do is direct the signals where you want them to go to (which channels) in the rank routing table when you first set up to load the instrument and don't load the surround portion at all. If both direct and diffuse are sent to the same speakers you can mix between direct and diffuse to your liking, or send direct to the front speakers and diffuse to the rear speakers and again you can adjust each signal to your liking. Depending on how you have your audio grouping set up now you might need to set up a new audio grouping under a separate instance of Hauptwerk which is provided and is easy to do.

Marc
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Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby Romanos » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:37 pm

Sadly Marc, it isn't that simple. The problem (and what I was really driving at) is not about loading both positions, but the fact that SP puts their "software" into the sampleset and thus as it stands now, you cannot have direct and diffuse at 100% as the fader system forces them to compete with one another. If you push to 100% on one it automatically adjusts the other down to 1%. I'm wanting direct at 80% and diffuse at 100% at the same time, hence I'm guessing a custom organ definition file might be necessary.

The way the sampleset is currently configured, SP wants you to fade between the two front positions and then you can add in rear to your liking. I basically want the same functionality but between the two front sets as if it were really only a front and rear setup (with diffuse as "rear" and not even loading the actual rear samples). I see the genius in their overlay, and for many people I'm sure it's a brilliant and easy solution but it's not quite the sound I'm going for.
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Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby 1961TC4ME » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:36 am

Ok, you got my curiosity enough that I went down to the office and loaded another SP 6 channel set I have which is Dingelsteadt. If you set the master control @ 50 between diffuse and direct, in effect you have 100% of both, or in other terms a six to one, half dozen to another 50 / 50 even mix of both signals, or you can adjust anywhere in between which seems to be what you're after. I was thinking you didn't want to use the surround signal at all and just wanted to use direct and diffuse which you could do as well and adjust between the two.

I do follow your reasoning about the 2 signals competing with each other, but in reality I guess that's what they'd be doing anyways.

We've got much to be happy about, no sad stuff at all here. :wink:

Marc
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Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby OrganoPleno » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:57 am

Romanos wrote:If you push to 100% on one it automatically adjusts the other down to 1%. I'm wanting direct at 80% and diffuse at 100% at the same time, hence I'm guessing a custom organ definition file might be necessary.


No problem. You use the sliders to adjust the BALANCE of Direct and Diffuse, NOT the Volume Level. Once you get the BALANCE the way you want it, THEN you adjust the TOTAL VOLUME elsewhere... specifically, by using the "Volume Trim" feature in Hauptwerk.

If Direct and Diffuse are both at "50%"... then increase the Volume Trim the way you want... and behold, now Direct and Diffuse are both playing at 100!.

Enjoy!
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Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby mnailor » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:09 pm

I'd prefer 3 sliders instead of front balance and rear volume. To set a direct-to-diffuse ratio of x to y, assuming it's a linear effect, means setting the slider at 1 + 127 y / ( x + y ). So 80 direct to 100 diffuse is 1 +127 * 100 / 180 -= 72 on the slider. This is annoying, and who wants to do arithmetic at the organ? I'm not even sure I did that correctly, and I was a math major. Georgia Tech may have to take my degree back...

Also, with only 2 sliders, you can't bring the rear channels up as loud as you might want because the overall relative volume of the front channels is fixed (roughly). I get around that by only loading diffuse and rear, so I can reduce diffuse to to say 64 and boost rear to 128.

Rant over. :D
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Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby Romanos » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:53 pm

OrganoPleno wrote:No problem. You use the sliders to adjust the BALANCE of Direct and Diffuse, NOT the Volume Level. Once you get the BALANCE the way you want it, THEN you adjust the TOTAL VOLUME elsewhere... specifically, by using the "Volume Trim" feature in Hauptwerk.

Understood, and that was precisely what I was getting at. I agree with the preceding comment that I wish there were three sliders. I know some samples have taken this approach and you can link/unlink the sliders if you like. That would be a nice thing here. I was leery of turning the organ volume up any more than default since if you go to 100% on the direct it is already quite powerful.

What I'm wanting, which apparently I haven't made sufficiently clear, is to have the diffuse at FULL VOLUME, with the Direct at near full volume (turned down just a touch to take the sharp edge off). That way I'd get the fullness of the diffuse sound but the clarity and direct speech of the direct samples. Using the balance slider does not allow for this. If I keep the direct level where I want it with the balance slider, the diffuse samples are leveled so low as to not be as useful or effective as I'd like.
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Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby jkinkennon » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:01 pm

OrganoPleno wrote:No problem. You use the sliders to adjust the BALANCE of Direct and Diffuse, NOT the Volume Level. Once you get the BALANCE the way you want it, THEN you adjust the TOTAL VOLUME elsewhere... specifically, by using the "Volume Trim" feature in Hauptwerk.


This is exactly the point. The beauty of the balance control is that you can set the front sound to your liking WITHOUT changing the overall volume. Otherwise we are mixing in the problem we run into with A/B audio comparisons where louder invariably sounds better, all else being equal. There's no math involved in deciding what balance between direct and diffuse sounds best.

If there is an issue with the volume attainable through your sound system then that should be addressed separately. Wow, I've never seen that be a problem.

I route diffuse channels to separate outputs and then use Reaper to mix the diffuse channels back into the same group of speakers that handle direct channels, albeit with any given pipe's diffuse audio on a different speaker than its direct audio. 1->2, 2->3, 3->1 if that makes sense. That of course also gives me complete control of the audio volumes though I don't see the need for that ability.
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