Search:
Submit Search


Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby 1961TC4ME » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:26 pm

OK, could this be a fairly simple workaround to this entire dilemma if adjusting the master slider does not provide enough of one or the other (diffuse / direct)? As we all know, in the rank loading table you have the option of which speaker channels / pairs (if you have things set up accordingly) to send the direct and diffuse to. You can send both direct and diffuse to the same channels / speakers, or you can send each to separate channels / speakers. So, what you'd do then assuming you have multiple channels and at least 2 pairs of front L / R speakers (for total of 4 speakers), simply route as an example the following >>> Send direct to channels 1-2 and diffuse to channels 3-4. Stack the 4 speakers 2 per side on top of each other or at least place them in pairs in the same vicinity, and you can then adjust each channels / output volumes to your liking either using the volume control on your amplifier(s) or on your sound card control panel, hence giving you complete control over direct and diffuse volume without detracting from each other.

Does that work?

Marc
1961TC4ME
Member
 
Posts: 2714
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:45 pm
Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota

Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby sonar11 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:21 pm

I agree with those who find the "balance" control confusing.

All you need is 3 sliders: 1 for direct, 1 for diffuse, 1 for surround.

They you set each as a value of 0 (off) - 100 (full volume).

Now we have the concept of balance thrown into the mix, and it doesn't appear to be any easier to understand than 3 simple sliders, as I and others were obviously confused as to what exactly the balance is modifying.

Once you start reducing the volume of direct, to get more diffuse, you then have to modify your organ volume to compensate; but then your surround is now out of balance so you need to adjust that manually again after the fact.

Seems to me the better idea is just to have 3 simple sliders. It's just one simple idea that everybody understands, applied to 3 separate sources. Can't get any easier to understand than that.
sonar11
Member
 
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 4:03 pm

Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby jkinkennon » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:00 pm

sonar11 wrote:Once you start reducing the volume of direct, to get more diffuse, you then have to modify your organ volume to compensate; but then your surround is now out of balance so you need to adjust that manually again after the fact.


This is exactly opposite of how the controls work as the balance control does not change the volume.

I'm not sure what is hard to understand about balancing the direct and diffuse ranks. As the direct/diffuse control is moved one set of ranks increases in volume as the other set of ranks decreases. The resulting volume that is output remains fixed and only the character of the sound changes. This is similar to adjusting the balance on a stereo receiver. A well designed balance control will shift the sound from the left speaker through center and on to the right speaker without changing the overall perceived volume.

If there are three controls then there is a tendency to adjust the front degree of ambiance with two controls instead of one and then possibly need to readjust the rear level or the overall volume with either all three sliders or with an overall volume control. In other words it is more "fiddly" as the controls need more interactive adjustment to produce the desired result.
jkinkennon
Member
 
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 10:43 am
Location: Vancouver, WA

Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby sonar11 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:44 pm

jkinkennon wrote:
sonar11 wrote:Once you start reducing the volume of direct, to get more diffuse, you then have to modify your organ volume to compensate; but then your surround is now out of balance so you need to adjust that manually again after the fact.


This is exactly opposite of how the controls work as the balance control does not change the volume.

I'm not sure what is hard to understand about balancing the direct and diffuse ranks. As the direct/diffuse control is moved one set of ranks increases in volume as the other set of ranks decreases. The resulting volume that is output remains fixed and only the character of the sound changes. This is similar to adjusting the balance on a stereo receiver. A well designed balance control will shift the sound from the left speaker through center and on to the right speaker without changing the overall perceived volume.

If there are three controls then there is a tendency to adjust the front degree of ambiance with two controls instead of one and then possibly need to readjust the rear level or the overall volume with either all three sliders or with an overall volume control. In other words it is more "fiddly" as the controls need more interactive adjustment to produce the desired result.


It's because you're not looking at it from a "I want to adjust this" perspective; I want to sometimes add more diffuse, or less diffuse, without adjusting the direct. Direct is set exactly where I want it (maybe it's 80, maybe it's 90); but at times I want to add more or less diffuse. A three slider makes the most sense; you simply increase or decrease the exact source you're interested in.

With a balance control, it's not immediately obvious when your direct sound is being modified. Does it stay at 100% as you move it from top down to 50%, and then start to decrease as you hit 49% and lower? Or does it start being decreased immediately with the diffuse being added immediately as well? You may think it's obvious, and perhaps it is to you, but the interface does not make it clear until you've fiddled around with it for some time.

You say that a good balance control will remove the need for adjusting my main volume, but that's not the case. I'm always tweaking it afterwards. Perhaps I would be with a 3 volume system too, but with the 3 volume control you always know exactly what you're adjusting, and you never affect the level of 2 sources at one time. It's just a simpler/better system.
sonar11
Member
 
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 4:03 pm

Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby magnaton » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:17 am

1961TC4ME wrote: So, what you'd do then assuming you have multiple channels and at least 2 pairs of front L / R speakers (for total of 4 speakers), simply route as an example the following >>> Send direct to channels 1-2 and diffuse to channels 3-4. Stack the 4 speakers 2 per side on top of each other or at least place them in pairs in the same vicinity, and you can then adjust each channels / output volumes to your liking either using the volume control on your amplifier(s) or on your sound card control panel, hence giving you complete control over direct and diffuse volume without detracting from each other.


Instead of adjusting the amplifier(s) volume knobs or sound card controls, review the "Audio Outputs" menu (under General Settings) where you can adjust the audio group's speaker level db. This way the volume tweaks for the Rosales remain with it. Having to readjust manual volume controls when loading a different organ would get old real quick. That sort of thing went out of style with having adjusting rabbit ears and tin foil on early television sets (I saw that on documentary a while back). :wink:


Danny B.
User avatar
magnaton
Member
 
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:28 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby 1961TC4ME » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:49 am

magnaton wrote:
Instead of adjusting the amplifier(s) volume knobs or sound card controls, review the "Audio Outputs" menu (under General Settings) where you can adjust the audio group's speaker level db. This way the volume tweaks for the Rosales remain with it. Having to readjust manual volume controls when loading a different organ would get old real quick. That sort of thing went out of style with having adjusting rabbit ears and tin foil on early television sets (I saw that on documentary a while back). :wink:


Danny B.


And, yep, you could do it that way too. :wink:

Merry Christmas All!

Marc
1961TC4ME
Member
 
Posts: 2714
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:45 pm
Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota

Re: Manuel Rosales, opus 11 - sample set for Hauptwerk

Postby IainStinson » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:33 am

Audio channel output level settings in Hauptwerk (pg 140 of the current user manual) are global for each configuration and not specific to a virtual organ - so you can't vary these between instruments (within a configuration). For some specific virtual instruments with "perspective" controls you can save a set of settings which are restored when the instrument is reloaded.

Iain
User avatar
IainStinson
Member
 
Posts: 549
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:08 pm
Location: NW England, UK

Previous

Return to Hauptwerk instruments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest