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Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby IainStinson » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:03 am

I completed the organ order form for this instrument yesterday and the email with the download link arrived today. ( I got a message with a link to the HW version which was not formatted as a url and one for another organ system which was formatted as a url: - look at the message and down load the correct link!) I've downloaded and scanned the HW version files and all is well. I'll try playing the instrument this evening.

Thanks.

Iain
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby adri » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:59 pm

I deeply apologize if I offended anyone. Not my intention at all. I tried to inspire. I feel very bad now as I apparently made the creators of the set quite defensive. Please accept my sincere apologies.

I welcome all new efforts and often I am the first one to announce a new sample set on the horizon.

Nevertheless, since this place is already so crowded with so many sets, any new set will have a hard time keeping up with the latest standards that seem to have become what seems to be demanded by the users these days (though not by all).

After what you posted here and on the Dutch forum, I went back to the Onderhorst organ to give it a critical second listening/playing and I believe it still has issues, even though I thank you for correcting some errors in my initial comments.

The organ has a stop knob labeled "Wind"; when engaged, the organ behaves not as well as without it. Not sure what function this knob serves.

There at several individual notes in the bass and treble that when repeated hesitate too much, and this problem is worsened when the Wind is on. It might be best for you to test this yourself by playing each note repeatedly with several and all stops engaged. It happens with repeats that are played normally (not too fast even).

I suppose such issues can be corrected in an update.

That's it! Thanks.
In friendship,
Adri
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby joeroberts » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:44 pm

Dear Mr. Bas et al........
All installed..... flawlessly....
Beautiful, crisp clean responsive machine.....
Thanks again for your personal help.....
Regards,
Joe
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby Legro » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:23 am

adri wrote:I deeply apologize if I offended anyone. Not my intention at all. I tried to inspire. I feel very bad now as I apparently made the creators of the set quite defensive. Please accept my sincere apologies.

I welcome all new efforts and often I am the first one to announce a new sample set on the horizon.

Nevertheless, since this place is already so crowded with so many sets, any new set will have a hard time keeping up with the latest standards that seem to have become what seems to be demanded by the users these days (though not by all).

After what you posted here and on the Dutch forum, I went back to the Onderhorst organ to give it a critical second listening/playing and I believe it still has issues, even though I thank you for correcting some errors in my initial comments.

The organ has a stop knob labeled "Wind"; when engaged, the organ behaves not as well as without it. Not sure what function this knob serves.

There at several individual notes in the bass and treble that when repeated hesitate too much, and this problem is worsened when the Wind is on. It might be best for you to test this yourself by playing each note repeatedly with several and all stops engaged. It happens with repeats that are played normally (not too fast even).

I suppose such issues can be corrected in an update.

That's it! Thanks.
In friendship,
Adri


I appreciate your intentions. It is up to you to act upon it. Apologies accepted but not necessary. I did not take it personally. I have just taken it as a good opportunity to explain some of the choices made when making this sampleset.
I would also like to take your comment about the "Wind" button to give some further explanation. For you and for those who are interested to read this.

If you record the sound of an organ pipe for pipe, you get the sound of the wind supply at every pipe, even in the release phase when the pipe no longer speaks. That delivers samples that are not immediately usable. When playing the virtual organ you want to sound more than one pipe at a time. To prevent the accumulation of wind noise these samples must be cleaned from the sound of the wind supply. The care with which this happens is crucial for the quality of the samples.

Now with the button wind: It has been added for those who do not want to miss the wind. This button "Wind" can be used to add the sound of the wind supply that has been removed from the samples, but only once without any accumulation.
The implementation is very simple. It is simply playing the recorded sound from the wind supply as if it were the sound of a (one) organ pipe. A sustained tone that is not switched with a key but with a button. (So it has nothing to do with the wind model of HW.)
I can not imagine that playing a single sustained tone would affect the behavior of the organ. Perception is subjective, sometimes you may hear what you think you hear.

Kind regards,

Bas
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby hans0166 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:14 pm

adri wrote:this is what I wrote on the Dutch forum:

Het spijt me erg maar dit anders erg leuke orgel is met een HW1 niveau aangepakt, en dusdoende klinken snelle akkoorden en snel gespeelde noten behoorlijk belabberd.

Is het professioneel zo'n orgeltje vervolgens uit te breiden tot c4 en zelfs tot 2-klaviers?

Ze zeggen dat je een giftpaard niet in de mond mag kijken, maar toch.... kan het echt niet beter met een beetje meer inspanning? Met multiple opnames en releases? Anders raken zulke gratis sets toch wel heel gauw in de vergetelheid, omdat de lol er heel snel van af is omdat het muzikaal toch niet bevredigd.

Dit klinkt wellicht wel erg hard en kritisch, maar ik ben bang dat het merendeel van de Hauptwerkians er ook zo over denken, maar uit beleefdheid niets zeggen.


My critique is meant, hopefully, as a way to encourage new sample set makers,

I really want to encourage in that direction!
Hope this helps.

If I am totally wrong, I'll be the first one to admit it!


even for a dutchie your comment is simply rude and blunt. If you want to encourage, contact the creator, don't destroy his "reputation" this way in public.
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby Legro » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:52 am

Adri wrote:

There at several individual notes in the bass and treble that when repeated hesitate too much, and this problem is worsened when the Wind is on. It might be best for you to test this yourself by playing each note repeatedly with several and all stops engaged. It happens with repeats that are played normally (not too fast even).

I suppose such issues can be corrected in an update.

Reply

I have checked this again but could not find any of the said hesitations. On my installation, each tone responds directly to a keystroke. But probably you are referring to the development of the tone in the organ pipes. Some tones of the organ take a bit more time than others until the tone has come to full development. At the C-36 of the hollow pipe (the slowest pipe) this takes about 0.4 seconds.
However, that is a characteristic of the organ, not a shortcoming of the sampleset as you mistakenly suggest.
It was (and is) certainly possible to change that in the samples, just as I could have polished the sound of some pipes, but I consciously refrained from doing that. It was my intention with the sample set to reproduce the organ with all its characteristics as well as possible.
If you want to give an opinion about the sample set, the original organ is the only acceptable benchmark for me.
Now touch that key for that C-36 of the hollow pipe briefly. You immediately get sound. But you will not hear the fundamental, not even in the reverb tail. It is almost real.

Kind regards,

Bas
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby adri » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:53 pm

To Bas and all others:

I take back all that I regretfully said in this thread.

My real problem was caused by a faulty setting of the latency on my new soundcard, which was set too high by default and therefore caused the issues I thought were the fault of the set.

Again, my profuse apologies; I acted with ignorance and in haste.

I have also posted an apology on the Dutch forum.

Thank you.


(P.S. And I'm glad I discovered this, as I don't like hard feelings between people at all!)
(Live and learn....a continual saga)
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby Legro » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:56 am

adri wrote:To Bas and all others:

I take back all that I regretfully said in this thread.

My real problem was caused by a faulty setting of the latency on my new soundcard, which was set too high by default and therefore caused the issues I thought were the fault of the set.

Again, my profuse apologies; I acted with ignorance and in haste.

I have also posted an apology on the Dutch forum.

Thank you.


(P.S. And I'm glad I discovered this, as I don't like hard feelings between people at all!)
(Live and learn....a continual saga)


Glad to hear that your problem has been solved.
Hope you will enjoy playing the organ now.
Kind regards,
Bas
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby Legro » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:25 am

adri wrote:To Bas and all others:

My real problem was caused by a faulty setting of the latency on my new soundcard, which was set too high by default and therefore caused the issues I thought were the fault of the set.



Adri reported that he had some problems with the settings of his new audiocard. They could be solved by choosing a different buffersize. I would like to draw your attention to a publication that recently appeared for those who want to optimize their Windows PC for live music production. It is called "GlitchFree" and is written by Brad Robinson. This publication explains in a very accessible way which settings are important and why they are important and practical advice is given. It is not specifically aimed at Hauptwerk but is intended for all musicians who use computers for live music performances, but I think this is also ideal for Hauptwerk users. Free download as pdf or Epub at: https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/

Brad Robertson is also the developer of the Cantabile software. A VST host that is also specifically designed for live music performance. Cantabile accepts Hauptwerk as a VST instrument when you select the VST link in Hauptwerk as the audio output. Then you can use VST effect plug-ins such as reverb but also other effects as mid-side processing to make your organ sound the way you want it.
With the free version of Cantabile you can already do a lot:
https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/free-vst-host

For effect plugins zie: https://www.kvraudio.com/plugins/newest.
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby Tweedle_Dee » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:10 pm

I downloaded and installed this sample set yesterday. This is a wonderful little instrument with so much character! I love it and intend to donate toward the upkeep of it. Many thanks for making little instruments like this available to us who would otherwise never have a chance to play them!
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby Unda Maris » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:59 am

This is a very nice FREE chamber organ! THX!!
Unfortunately there is a programming error in the sample set: If you change the pitch, the registers Quinte 1 1/3 and Sexquialter are no longer playable correctly. Quiet samples with a soft attack and a very long fade will sound. To correct the error, you need to uninstall and reinstall the Sample-Set.
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby adri » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:48 am

Unda Maris wrote:This is a very nice FREE chamber organ! THX!!
Unfortunately there is a programming error in the sample set: If you change the pitch, the registers Quinte 1 1/3 and Sexquialter are no longer playable correctly. Quiet samples with a soft attack and a very long fade will sound. To correct the error, you need to uninstall and reinstall the Sample-Set.


I read somewhere that It is generally not advisable to change pitches, as it introduces audible artifacts, which do not sound all that great. Changing a temperament stays within much smaller parameters. But you can test what I just asserted on any HW instrument, so to see how much distortion -if any - is introduced by changing the pitch.

I some sample sets, changing the temperament also causes problems. On some (older[?] SP sets, some of the highest notes do not speak at proper pitch anymore.
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby Legro » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:18 am

Unda Maris wrote:This is a very nice FREE chamber organ! THX!!
Unfortunately there is a programming error in the sample set: If you change the pitch, the registers Quinte 1 1/3 and Sexquialter are no longer playable correctly. Quiet samples with a soft attack and a very long fade will sound. To correct the error, you need to uninstall and reinstall the Sample-Set.


Thank you for your compliments and for your attention.
The effect observed by you occurs particularly when changing the temperament. This is indeed caused by a programming error. I hope to correct this shortly with an update.

If this occurs in the meantime, however, it will not be necessary to completely reinstall the sample set. The Organ Definition Files and the Installationpackage will remain safely stored in the Hauptwerk folders. Only the contents of the cache memory can be affected. To restore this, it will be sufficient to reload the organ via the menu: "Organ"> "load organ, adjusting rank audio etc.". (Take care to select all the ranks to be reloaded !).
Excuse for the inconvenience.

Bas
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby Legro » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:12 am

Legro wrote:
Unda Maris wrote:This is a very nice FREE chamber organ! THX!!
Unfortunately there is a programming error in the sample set: If you change the pitch, the registers Quinte 1 1/3 and Sexquialter are no longer playable correctly. Quiet samples with a soft attack and a very long fade will sound. To correct the error, you need to uninstall and reinstall the Sample-Set.


Thank you for your compliments and for your attention.
The effect observed by you occurs particularly when changing the temperament. This is indeed caused by a programming error. I hope to correct this shortly with an update.

If this occurs in the meantime, however, it will not be necessary to completely reinstall the sample set. The Organ Definition Files and the Installationpackage will remain safely stored in the Hauptwerk folders. Only the contents of the cache memory can be affected. To restore this, it will be sufficient to reload the organ via the menu: "Organ"> "load organ, adjusting rank audio etc.". (Take care to select all the ranks to be reloaded !).
Excuse for the inconvenience.

Bas


The cause has been found and the shortcoming has been set aside. I have today sent an update to all known users of the sampleset. New downloads will no longer have this problem.

Bas
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