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Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

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Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby adri » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:33 am

follow this link I discovered on the Dutch forum pcorgel.nl

http://home.kpn.nl/legro
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby lefranc22 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:58 am

Lovely small organ. And both versions, original and extended, can be used with Hauptwerk Free Evaluation. What else?
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby engrssc » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:57 pm

Agree, very lovely. For English folks, info is here:

http://home.kpn.nl/legro/assets/files/Organinfo-english.pdf

You'll notice the organ is pitched at A = 412 Hz. There is a picture of a transposition manual (keyboard) placed on top of the organ's actually keyboard assume to permit the organ to play closer to a more standard A = 440 Hz (Actually in this case A = 436 Hz). First time I saw something like that.

(Learn something new every time we open up the Hauptwerk Forum.) 8)

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby organplayer » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:54 pm

A friend of me asked for the download link (you can't download the sampleset before you tell them your Name and Email ) He received the download link immediately. But when he opened the link he was transfered to a special download service. To continue you have to accept the terms of condition and cookies. Listen! The download service is located in East-Timor! That is strange, isn't it?

I personally think it's always a good idea to think twice before downloading if an unusual way is used. Or am I wrong?
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby Lougheed » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:15 pm

organplayer wrote:
I personally think it's always a good idea to think twice before downloading if an unusual way is used. Or am I wrong?


Nope. Not wrong, at all.
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby engrssc » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:53 pm

Interestingly, my AVG program blocked the down load website.

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby lefranc22 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:16 am

Neither Avast, nor Malwarebytes could find anything in the downloaded files. I'm not paranoid., but who knows?
East Timor is a very poor all catholic country, in peace now after a terrific war with Indonesia, and I suppose that hosting there may be very inexpensive.
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby seh52 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:20 pm

I agreed to the terms, downloaded a compressed folder, extracted and installed the files to enjoy 3 delightful versions of the chamber organ.
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby adri » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:46 pm

downloaded ok; all versions, but I love the sound (but recorded just a bit too close, imnsho) but dislike the amateuristic way this set was produced without any multiple attacks/loops, and thus on fast repeats the organ sounds really not good. This is for slower music I guess.

But should anyone still be making HW1 technology sets in 2018?
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby Mixtuur4st » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:50 pm

But should anyone still be making HW1 technology sets in 2018?


There is an old Dutch saying "Een gegeven paard moet je niet in de bek kijken".
In English this is something like "When you accept a free gift from a person then you don't criticise that person."

And yes, this little organ is not well suited for the big works of Franck c.s.

But for amateur players like me, who play simpler compositions, it sounds very enjoyable.
And yes, having several recent samplesets I still use some HW1-sets, e.g. Anloo and Freres Julien.

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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby adri » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:56 pm

this is what I wrote on the Dutch forum:

Het spijt me erg maar dit anders erg leuke orgel is met een HW1 niveau aangepakt, en dusdoende klinken snelle akkoorden en snel gespeelde noten behoorlijk belabberd.

Is het professioneel zo'n orgeltje vervolgens uit te breiden tot c4 en zelfs tot 2-klaviers?

Ze zeggen dat je een giftpaard niet in de mond mag kijken, maar toch.... kan het echt niet beter met een beetje meer inspanning? Met multiple opnames en releases? Anders raken zulke gratis sets toch wel heel gauw in de vergetelheid, omdat de lol er heel snel van af is omdat het muzikaal toch niet bevredigd.

Dit klinkt wellicht wel erg hard en kritisch, maar ik ben bang dat het merendeel van de Hauptwerkians er ook zo over denken, maar uit beleefdheid niets zeggen.


My critique is meant, hopefully, as a way to encourage new sample set makers, new on the scene, to try their best to go beyond HW1 technology. I do not know how many folks here still play HW1 organs, but it surely must be a minority by now. Should new sample set makers target this minority?

Yes, it's free and one should not look a gifted horse in the mouth, but this saying also makes no real sense in case the horse is sick, or in any other way is just not quite a perfect animal. These old sayings are somewhat silly. I know what they mean, and that's all good and well, but I'm not sure how effective this gift is at this point in time.

I truly appreciate the effort, but I would love to see a beautiful cabinet organ sampled with the latest up-to-date approach.

I really want to encourage in that direction!
Hope this helps.

If I am totally wrong, I'll be the first one to admit it!
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby Legro » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:03 am

organplayer wrote:A friend of me asked for the download link (you can't download the sampleset before you tell them your Name and Email ) He received the download link immediately. But when he opened the link he was transfered to a special download service. To continue you have to accept the terms of condition and cookies. Listen! The download service is located in East-Timor! That is strange, isn't it?

I personally think it's always a good idea to think twice before downloading if an unusual way is used. Or am I wrong?


May I introduce myself on your forum? I am Bas Kleinbloesem and I am the supplier of the sampleset of the Onderhorst cabinet organ. To this end, I have opened a website for several weeks where you can order it. A member of your forum brought to my attention that there were some questions in your forum about our method of distribution. The following information might be helpful:
We are currently using the services of "Wetransfer" for the distribution of the sampleset. "Wetransfer" is a provider of all-over-the-world transmission services. The company was foundend in 2009 in the Netherlands and was (one of) the first to offer this kind of services. Transmission of large files is their core business. According to their information, their servers are in the EU and in the US. More information can be found on their own website: https://wetransfer.com/about , and in the wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeTransfer .
No rights can be derived from this communication. We reserve all rights to organize the distribution differently in the future.
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby Legro » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:45 am

adri wrote:this is what I wrote on the Dutch forum:

Het spijt me erg maar dit anders erg leuke orgel is met een HW1 niveau aangepakt, en dusdoende klinken snelle akkoorden en snel gespeelde noten behoorlijk belabberd.

Is het professioneel zo'n orgeltje vervolgens uit te breiden tot c4 en zelfs tot 2-klaviers?

Ze zeggen dat je een giftpaard niet in de mond mag kijken, maar toch.... kan het echt niet beter met een beetje meer inspanning? Met multiple opnames en releases? Anders raken zulke gratis sets toch wel heel gauw in de vergetelheid, omdat de lol er heel snel van af is omdat het muzikaal toch niet bevredigd.

Dit klinkt wellicht wel erg hard en kritisch, maar ik ben bang dat het merendeel van de Hauptwerkians er ook zo over denken, maar uit beleefdheid niets zeggen.


My critique is meant, hopefully, as a way to encourage new sample set makers, new on the scene, to try their best to go beyond HW1 technology. I do not know how many folks here still play HW1 organs, but it surely must be a minority by now. Should new sample set makers target this minority?

Yes, it's free and one should not look a gifted horse in the mouth, but this saying also makes no real sense in case the horse is sick, or in any other way is just not quite a perfect animal. These old sayings are somewhat silly. I know what they mean, and that's all good and well, but I'm not sure how effective this gift is at this point in time.

I truly appreciate the effort, but I would love to see a beautiful cabinet organ sampled with the latest up-to-date approach.

I really want to encourage in that direction!
Hope this helps.

If I am totally wrong, I'll be the first one to admit it!


Making a sample set like this is a lot of work. The choice to make this sampleset available free of charge was made to give as many organ lovers as possible the opportunity to get acquainted with this organ and to enjoy musical pleasure. For me the fact that it is free is no reason for concessions to the quality.
Rather than saying "You're not supposed to look the gift horse in the mouth", my motto is therefore:
"Are you satisfied, tell it others, do you have complaints please tell us". We have already experienced that the first is happening. In a few weeks we have already had more than 90 applications.

As far as Adri's complaint is concerned: Quick pieces by Bach played in tempi as we know them from Marie Clair Alain (that is not slow, is it?) sound good to me. If playing fast chords and fast-played notes at Adri sounds “belabberd" (lousy) their must be something that is not right. I hereby kindly invite Adri to send me audio as well as corresponding midi recordings of his fast organ playing with this sample set. We can then see if we can reproduce his problem and perhaps find what it is.

The remark that the organ would have been addressed with an HW1 level is not correct.
HW1 was (as far as I remember): 16 bit, no real stereo but "panned" mono, single loops, 44.1kHz.
The sample set discussed here is 24bit, stereo, multi-loops per sample. Recorded and finished on 96kHZ, published on 48kHz. In addition, we anticipated the use of the VST link for audio reproduction in virtual spaces which was not possible with HW1 but is possible with HW4.
I would like to give you some explanation on the choices I have made in creating this sample set.
The cabinet organ is an instrument that is meant as a house organ. It does not form a unity with the church. It can be used on different places in the church and than produces a different spatial effect. I I opted for a recording with mono-point stereo technology at a short distance from the instrument, (just so that the sound of the entire organ could be recorded from this single point) and with little influence from the church.
Incidentally, I also experimented with the microphone at a larger distance and with a different placement of the organ, but I opted for the above approach because in my opinion it produced the best result.
The recording is dry enough that applying multiple samples per pipe would have no added value, nor does the use of multiple attacks. A fast attack is anyhow needed with this organ, even if you play slow parts, because of the “Spuck”. All the attacks were carefully edited for fast and synchronous response.
There is indeed some reverb-tail at the release. I left that intact. I understand from organists who have a real pipe organ in their house that they often feel a need for a little artificial reverberation. Usually we do not have the acoustics at our present homes as in the "Houses" where such an organ as this Onderhorst organ would have used to be (at least not in the Netherlands, the USA might be different).
If you want to play very fast and especially “staccato” that (short) reverb-tail might be considered as being a bit long. Nevertheless, multiple releases have not been chosen. Starting from the organ as an instrument we have other options nowadays. If you want to play a staccato effect in a virtual space (ie not actually playing the organ but the church) I consider it a better option to abstain from the use of the reverberation of the sample set * and instead to opt for a good acoustics simulator.
HW4 offers a range of possibilities via the VST link. For example: "Cantabile" as Vst host, with plugins such as ReverberateLE (free) up to Altiverb7 (not free).

Minimizing the reverb tail is anyhow to recommend if you want to use the virtual organ with real instruments or together with singing voices. After all, they also have to do with the natural reverberation of the space in which you play.

And, oh yes, I have not (yet) implemented the wind model, but that is not a HW4 vs HW1 issue but a HW4 advanced vs. HW4 basic and free.



* You can limit or minimize the echo tail yourself via the menu: "Load organ, adjusting rank, audiomemory etc." and then, when loading, set the "Release sample truncation" to the minimum value (or to the value you want). Note that you first select all the ranks to which you want to apply this.
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby joeroberts » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:33 pm

Mmmmm...
For reasons unknown..I have not had any response (DL link) since I sent the requested info...several times, weeks ago...??
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Re: Free Dutch Cabinet organ (Onderhorst)

Postby Legro » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:40 am

joeroberts wrote:Mmmmm...
For reasons unknown..I have not had any response (DL link) since I sent the requested info...several times, weeks ago...??
joe roberts


Dear Joe,
I checked it in our administration. You have indeed made an application on 23 February. We answered on 24 February. On 25 February we received a second request. We answered on 26 February. We did not receive a message that our e-mails could not be delivered but apparently you did not receive our messages.
Can you contact us again so that we can check the contact details? If so, do not use the contact form but send a message directly to our e-mail address: legro@kpnmail.nl (You can also find this e-mail address on our website). We will answer you as soon as possible.

There are still some other applicants that we know we could not reach because we received a "postmaster" message that delivery was not possible. I also want to ask them to contact us if they read this via our e-mail address.

Kind regards,

Bas Kleinbloesem
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