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One slightly annoying phenomenon

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One slightly annoying phenomenon

Postby adri » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:46 pm

At least, I find it annoying, because it sounds so:

-unnatural
-abrupt
-noisy
-anti-climatic
-too soon
-sudden
-in your face (or ears, actually)
-uncalled for

-etc. you get my train of thought

etc.

WHAT does, you might wonder?

On a sampled organ, whose original has mechanical and therefore noisy stop action, to turn all the stops on at the beginning, or all off at once at the end, and making a racket of a sound, with reverb and all. THAT's WHAT! :evil:

All these historical organs are beginning to sound like they have electric action with that "cancel all" button at the end of a piece. Or a preset tutti at the start. You sometimes even hear it in the middle of a piece: what a racket! Of course you can turn the sounds off totally, but for realism sake, you like to keep them on.

Perhaps a staggered on and off of stops would be more realistic, and perhaps sample set makers should more gently pull and close the stops while recording their sounds?

What do you think? :wink: :idea:
Last edited by adri on Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: One annoying phenomenon

Postby ReinerS » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:12 pm

While I do agree that the sound of a large number of mechanicallly drawn stops being pushed at exactly at the same instance of time is rather unnatural, I must say that so is the action causing that sound!

Asking sample set producers to create a work around for this does not seem the proper way to avoid this sound. Asking them to pull the stops more gently doesn't do it either, because when the soiund becomes nearly inaudible it would not satisfy those who want the stop noises. Also it would mean to stretch out the sound in time, as it means to pull more slowly, wonder how THAT would then sound with general cancel :-)

Just avoid using pistons and stop noises together on such instruments, or else you simply will need to live with the annoyance of an unrealistic sound caused by an unrealistic action.

Hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but what else can I say?

Best regards
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Re: One annoying phenomenon

Postby adri » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:05 pm

Well, I am being a bit humorous about it, but perhaps a gradual closing and adding of stops would be more natural. I have tried turning the stop knobs sounds off, but that "sounds" (for lack of a better word :lol: ) also very odd.
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Re: One annoying phenomenon

Postby engrssc » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:15 pm

Even more so when using a head set :mrgreen:

Rgds,
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Re: One annoying phenomenon

Postby jbittner » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:16 pm

I've turned off most of the mechanical noises in the sample sets I own. My console has moving tabs, so there's still that sound when combinations are activated. If I were using touch screens exclusively, I might find a benefit from the aural feedback in the sample set, but I'd certainly get into the settings and drop the level down. Of course, you need the Advanced version Hauptwerk for that.
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Re: One annoying phenomenon

Postby sonar11 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:00 am

I always found it rather odd that HW organists activate those sounds in the first place. It doesn't add authenticity, in a good way. It's like driving a sports car; the engine/exhaust noise is welcome and authentic; the brakes squealing away when you're trying stop, may be realistic and accurate, but it's still annoying and unwanted.

(I also wonder how many HW organists set their home temperature to 10-15 degrees and shiver in the winter while playing, sprinkle dust around their bench and console etc etc )

Each to their own I guess :)
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Re: One annoying phenomenon

Postby OrganoPleno » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:33 am

adri wrote:All these historical organs are beginning to sound like they have electric action with that "cancel all" button at the end of a piece. Or a preset tutti at the start.

What do you think?


I think that when YOU play, you shouldn't use any pistons... no Pre-sets, no General Cancel. Make your performances and your recordings this way, and your problem is solved. Then the rest of us can still have fun the way we like.
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Re: One slightly annoying phenomenon

Postby robsig » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:15 pm

The action noises can be adjusted in the voicing section. Depending on the sample set there are individual settings for each keyboard for stops on, stops off, tracker action, wind noise, etc. Choose the levels you want! I haven't checked but you can probably adjust the tone of the noises with the "brilliance" chosen rather than the volume.

I adjust all my organs this way. I like the old noises but within reason. On youtube you can hear some old organs playing where the mechanical noise is louder than the music. I forgot which Silbermann I was listening to, it sounded like two skeletons enjoying themselves on a tin roof… (the allusion is to a quote attributed to either Stravinsky or Thomas Beecham).

RS
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Re: One slightly annoying phenomenon

Postby NickNelson » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:20 pm

robsig wrote:... it sounded like two skeletons enjoying themselves on a tin roof… (the allusion is to a quote attributed to either Stravinsky or Thomas Beecham).


I'm fairly sure it was Beecham, referring to the sound of the harpsichord. I don't agree.

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Re: One slightly annoying phenomenon

Postby adri » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:37 am

NickNelson wrote:
robsig wrote:... it sounded like two skeletons enjoying themselves on a tin roof… (the allusion is to a quote attributed to either Stravinsky or Thomas Beecham).


I'm fairly sure it was Beecham, referring to the sound of the harpsichord. I don't agree.

Nick


It was the rather outspoken Beecham indeed.
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