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Recommendations for augmenting existing Moller Organ

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Recommendations for augmenting existing Moller Organ

Postby psuorganguy » Mon May 14, 2018 1:18 pm

Hi All,

I'm looking at the possibility of augmenting the existing Moller pipe organ in my church with some Hauptwerk. The instrument began life as an Artiste in the late 60's. A great division was added in 1978 and from what I can tell, the original pipework became the swell division. There is a ton of unification and only one reed in the instrument. We have been looking at different options for expansion, both pipe and digital expansion. Given my history with Hauptwerk, I'm trying to put together a possible plan that would give us some more reed options and color stops that would fit with the existing pipework.

Any thoughts on what would be a good fit? Possibly the 1949 Moller from Organ Expressions?

Thanks!
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Re: Recommendations for augmenting existing Moller Organ

Postby engrssc » Mon May 14, 2018 5:25 pm

Can you list the real ranks you have including how they are unified?

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: Recommendations for augmenting existing Moller Organ

Postby organtechnology » Mon May 14, 2018 10:17 pm

don't know what happened but my comments were lost.
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Re: Recommendations for augmenting existing Moller Organ

Postby psuorganguy » Mon May 14, 2018 11:08 pm

Here is the spec of the current organ. organtechnology, I don't see your comments either.

Great
8’ Principal
8’ Rohrflote
8’ Gemshorn (Swell)
4’ Gemshorn (Swell) ext.
4’ Octave (ext. of 8’ Principal)
4’ Rohrflote (ext. of 8’ Rohrflote)
2’ Super Octave (ext. of 8’ Principal)
2’ Flute (ext. of 8’ Rohrflote)
1’ Sifflote (ext. of 8’ Rohrflote)
Mixture III-IV

Swell
8’ Gedeckt
8’ Gemshorn
8’ Gemshorn Celeste
4’ Principal
4’ Flute (ext. of 8’ Gedeckt)
2’ Kleine Octave (ext. of Swell 4’ Principal)
1 1/3 Quint Flute (Swell 8’ Gedeckt)
16’ Contra Trompette (ext. of Swell 8’ Trompette)
8’ Trompette
4’ Clarion (ext. of Swell 8’ Trompette)

Pedal
16’ Bourdon (ext. of Great 8’ Rohrflote)
16’ Bass Gedeckt (ext. of Swell 8’ Gedeckt)
8’ Flute (Swell 8’ Gedeckt)
4’ Octave (Great 4’ Octave)
16’ Contre Trompette (Swell)
8’ Trompette (Swell)
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Re: Recommendations for augmenting existing Moller Organ

Postby engrssc » Mon May 14, 2018 11:48 pm

One consideration is the environment of a given sample set vs your existing space. There are many beautiful sample sets from large organs in reverberant buildings, but these possibly wouldn't blend in with your situation. By using that as criteria, you narrow down the field. Most likely you already know this.

If there is a possibility to set up a realistic demonstration system, you could try out some available demos from various s/s producers. What looks good on paper may not necessarily be optimum. It's all in the ear of the 'beholder'. Then, too, Hauptwerk's voicing adjustments can make a difference. I've always considered blending a virtual instrument with real pipes to be an art form.

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: Recommendations for augmenting existing Moller Organ

Postby psuorganguy » Wed May 16, 2018 9:12 am

I definitely plan on using a dry sample set. The existing space is not very reverberant so that would just sound wrong.

I think there could be a possibility of setting up a test system. I could fill the baptistry with speakers as that would be hidden from view during normal Sunday services unless someone opened the curtains.

In my previous installation I used the MDA Skinner set. If this could be a viable fit, I will try it. It seems like some people think there are other better sample sets now as technology has evolved. Is this the case?
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Re: Recommendations for augmenting existing Moller Organ

Postby josq » Wed May 16, 2018 11:19 am

I can't comment on the MDA Skinner, but I definitely would recommend to take a look at http://www.sonusparadisi.cz/en/organs/u-s-a.html for a couple of sample sets of USA organs recorded by Sonus Paradisi. (Just a few moments ago they announced the release of a large Casavant sample set, see viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16895)
See http://www.sonusparadisi.cz/en/blog/cat ... ree-stuff/ for free demo sample sets.
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Re: Recommendations for augmenting existing Moller Organ

Postby Stbees » Thu May 17, 2018 9:00 pm

[code][/code]I must admit that my first thought for your project was the MDA Skinner (dry version, of course). But josq's mention of the new Casavant from Sonus completely changed my mind. Voicing vision of the Casavant would be pretty much compatible with a late Moller, and the dry acoustic of the church in Bellevue sounds a match for your church (although just the front, very dry samples could be used). The Casavant is very colorful and refined - the samples would probably be a very nice addition.

Personally, I'd replace all the extensions in the Moller stoplist with Casavant samples. As the song from "Sound of Music" says, it's "a very good place to start."

As a side note: I've been directly responsible for the installation of one Casavant tracker in a church and indirectly with a second in a University setting, and have played many a Casavant over the years. The Sonus samples are very representative of the best of the Canadian builder's work. More recently I spear-headed a hybrid instrument using a late Phelps-era Casavant combined with a digital from a leading American builder. (Another forum member did the bulk of the installation). The installation, in a fairly dry room, seems to please those who hear it. So, I'm a firm believer that the idea of using Hauptwerk or other digital stops to "fill out" a stoplist has merit.
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Re: Recommendations for augmenting existing Moller Organ

Postby Tweedle_Dee » Thu May 17, 2018 11:05 pm

I play a church installation in a pretty dry sanctuary. We have a Moller Artiste pipe organ that we considered enhancing with Hauptwerk. In the end, it was decided to leave the pipe organ alone and build a separate Hauptwerk installation. I go back and forth on whether that was a good idea or not, but we do play duets occasionally.

This is subjective and I know some disagree with me, but I really prefer bone dry, in your face samples. The sets that I've demo'd that sound really good to my ears are the dry versions of Menesterol, Velesovo, and the Georgian set from Silver Octopus all of which are exceedingly dry. I'm sure there are others I haven't tried like MDA Skinner. For me, the most apparent weakness of semi-dry is when listening to solo flutes. They sound a little distant with loss of detail. With larger registrations, it's not as noticeable.

That said, the sample set I play most often is the Portland Rosales because of it's versatility and how great the full principal chorus sounds. But when playing something with a small registration, I usually jump on the little pipe organ.

Just my 2 cents worth.
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Re: Recommendations for augmenting existing Moller Organ

Postby psuorganguy » Fri May 18, 2018 10:24 am

Tweedle_Dee:

Thanks for your thoughts! I'm having trouble finding the Silver Octopus versions you are referring to. Are they no longer available?

Also,

I searched the forum for details on your install, but didn't find a whole lot. Would you be willing to share what you did in your church?
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Re: Recommendations for augmenting existing Moller Organ

Postby mnailor » Fri May 18, 2018 11:42 am

There's also the CLR SMG E. M. Skinner. It's smaller and the front/direct samples are nearly dry. Might be suitable with a small pipe organ.
Last edited by mnailor on Fri May 18, 2018 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Recommendations for augmenting existing Moller Organ

Postby 1961TC4ME » Fri May 18, 2018 12:24 pm

I too would take a close look at the Casavant set. First because of the very reasonable asking price, second because of the fact the demo by itself is quite generous giving you the opportunity to give it a decent audition. Thirdly, if it's anything like the other set's Jiri offers that have the adjustable perspective sliders, his front samples are quite dry and direct, even his sets recorded in the larger environments. In the environment this organ was sampled, I'd guess the front recordings are going to be about as close to stone dry and as direct as you can get.

Marc
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Re: Recommendations for augmenting existing Moller Organ

Postby Tweedle_Dee » Fri May 18, 2018 2:59 pm

psuorganguy wrote:Tweedle_Dee:

Thanks for your thoughts! I'm having trouble finding the Silver Octopus versions you are referring to. Are they no longer available?

Also,

I searched the forum for details on your install, but didn't find a whole lot. Would you be willing to share what you did in your church?


Here is the Silver Octopus set I mentioned. I should say that I have very limited experience with it, but I briefly evaluated the demo in our church and thought it sounded excellent. In fact, I asked my wife to listen to the flutes of 4 or 5 different sets (blind) and this was her favorite. Various factors play into that subjective opinion of course. I plan to purchase this set for our church some time this year. I wasn't as enamored with the "standard" Father Willis set.
http://www.silveroctopus.co.uk/georgian_series.htm

Here is a write-up about our church installation. It is modest but our church isn't very big, about 2500sqft IIRC. John Kinkennon was the brains behind it and super all-around nice guy :) Not to mention a freaking electronics genius.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=15699&p=118858&hilit=barnabas#p118858
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