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Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby RaymondList » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:33 pm

I did not post it here, but a few weeks ago, because of all the excellent reviews I went ahead and purchased this sample set and I was able to load it. I loaded no Tremmed samples, loaded all front samples at 20 bit with multiple loops, rear samples at 16 bit and limited those rear samples. I have 13.5 G available, and it just loads with my selections. I'm also extremely pleased with this set and very glad I have it.
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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby Doug S. » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:44 pm

I love this set, especially the GO Fourniture. However, it seems to be slightly out of tune here and there within itself and therefore not correctable through the HW tuning tab within the voicing tool. Have I missed something perhaps? Is there a workaround?
Thanks,
Doug S
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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby 1961TC4ME » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:21 pm

Doug S. wrote:I love this set, especially the GO Fourniture. However, it seems to be slightly out of tune here and there within itself and therefore not correctable through the HW tuning tab within the voicing tool. Have I missed something perhaps? Is there a workaround?
Thanks,
Doug S


Hi Doug,

Although I don't own this particular set I do have others from SP and I have been stumped by this as well once in awhile, that is until I realize I'm not looking closely at which I'm trying to tune. There should be a selection to tune both the front (main signal) pipe and the rear (surround signal) pipe separately. Are you selecting the correct one? Also, I've found in the past from time to time that I'm simply not in the right octave and attempting to correct the wrong C as an example. Other than that there should be no reason you can't adjust the tuning unless there is something I'm missing as well, like this feature is locked in this particular SP set for some reason, which I'd doubt is the case.

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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby Doug S. » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:27 pm

Mark,
I have been aware on both your points, especially the front versus rear samples.
Tx,
D
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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby 1961TC4ME » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:29 pm

Hello Doug,

I can't say 100% for sure, but if I'm not mistaken the forniture is actually a combination of stops, and if so would then likely be intentionally set as to not be corrected as a whole using any of the voicing controls. Is that possibly the issue and there's a certain stop within the forniture mix that needs to be addressed on it's own?

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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby Doug S. » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:26 pm

You are correct the Fourniture is a multi rank upper harmonic corroborating stop, a mixture, and as such, the individual ranks are not accessible for tuning through Hauptwerk as far as I can determine. This is a deep disappointment. It seems the tuning errors were present when sampled. Hopefully Juri will explain the situation.
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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby 1961TC4ME » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:40 pm

Doug S. wrote:You are correct the Fourniture is a multi rank upper harmonic corroborating stop, a mixture, and as such, the individual ranks are not accessible for tuning through Hauptwerk as far as I can determine. This is a deep disappointment. It seems the tuning errors were present when sampled. Hopefully Juri will explain the situation.



If that's the case I'd then assume it's just a matter of figuring out which stop or stops it is that forms the Fourniture causing the tuning issue, then going to that stop individually and correcting it. Then when you draw the actual Fourniture stop you will hear the results.

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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby Doug S. » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:04 pm

The different pitch pipe samples within a single note are not addressable individually. It appears as a single entity in both front and rear samples meaning one may only tune notes as an aggregate in each.
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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby 1961TC4ME » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:34 pm

Doug S. wrote:The different pitch pipe samples within a single note are not addressable individually. It appears as a single entity in both front and rear samples meaning one may only tune notes as an aggregate in each.


If that's the case and you can not address the ranks that form the Fourniture individually, then there's nothing you can do about it unless Jiri can offer something after the fact. I've run into the same issue with the SP Dingelsteadt set as well on certain stops. Seems it's a matter of recording these particular combined stops as is as a whole and perhaps saving some time. Problem is, good or bad you have to accept them as delivered.

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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby Doug S. » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:47 pm

Hopefully Juri will pipe in with a solution for this otherwise fabulous stop.
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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby NickNelson » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:22 am

Doug S. wrote:Hopefully Juri will pipe in with a solution for this otherwise fabulous stop.

It would seem unlikely. Since mixtures play together, they must be recorded together. The only alternative would be for the creator of the sample set to access the organ loft and mute all but one of the various contributing pipes, per note, individually. I wouldn't think the owners of organs would be that keen on the idea.

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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby adrianw » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:57 am

Not only is recording mixture pipes separately logistically difficult, requiring access to the organ loft and a way of silencing the pipes, it may not yield satisfactory results. Mixtures simply sound different recorded separately and then reassembled. One could speculate as to the reasons - there are probably several subtle effects in each stage of recording, sample preparation and HW replay that combine to make the difference. Sounding different does not necessarily mean sounding worse, but it does mean that you risk losing the character and balance of the original ranks.

Some sample sets, particularly composites such as some of those offered by Silver Octopus, do use separable mixture ranks which can be individually tuned pipe-by-pipe, note-by-note, which might be desirable for church installations. For most sample sets, though, the only option for out-of-tune mixtures is to choose a sample from better-tuned neighbouring note, duplicate and repitch it. Since this particular set is unencrypted it is certainly technically doable yourself if you are seriously distressed by it.

I have this Casavant myself and am very pleased with it. I have not been worried by the mixture tuning, although now you have drawn my attention to it I can hear a bit of "character" in the Fourniture. Maybe not a bad thing, IMHO. If there is a criticism of this set it might be that it does rather lack character and I would worry that perfect tuning might make it even more bland. Perhaps Jiri and the beta-testers made the same call.
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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby Doug S. » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:00 pm

I haven't given up yet. There may be a way to reduce the irritability by using the brightness option in the voicing toolbox.
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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby va3ets » Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:27 am

That's interesting. I was wondering if you can tune mixtures rank by rank in Hauptwerk's voicing and tuning facilities, but from these posts, it looks like you can just tune their notes as you can with any other stop. Hope you can find some way to resolve this Doug. I know how it is, I've got perfect pitch here, and when a note or notes on a stop are even just off slightly, it drives me crazy.
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Re: Casavant Organ Model by Sonus Paradisi

Postby telemanr » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:44 am

You can’t really play an actual organ in situ and expect perfect tuning. I play at home on HW and in a church where the organ is not tuned weekly or anything like. But since we’re dealing with equal temperament in the first place I can’t really see carping about slight imperfections. (I also have perfect pitch but I live with it. You have to.)
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