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Freiberg wind model

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Freiberg wind model

Postby mnailor » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:38 pm

I'm using the SP Freiberg Silbermann v2.5 with 4 channels, diffuse and rear, loaded. On big sustained passages such as in BWV 542 Fantasia in g minor, the 16' principal chorus on the main manual with pedal flues, no reeds, no 2nd manual, is enough to run out of wind and sputter to silence, then wheeze back up again. Which sounds hilarious once or twice, but seems unlikely to be realistic.

Lowering the wind effect percentage in organ preferences doesn't prevent that, so I have to disable the wind model.

Does the real instrument have so little wind? Could it be that the wind parameters are enough for 2 channels but not 4 or 6, and don't scale with ranks loaded?
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Re: Freiberg wind model

Postby Grant_Youngman » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:15 pm

Check the "Bellows" page. Make sure everything is turned on.

Did you change something on this page?
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Re: Freiberg wind model

Postby mnailor » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:40 pm

Yes, thank you, all 4 bellows are turned on and can be seen operating.
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Re: Freiberg wind model

Postby Grant_Youngman » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:16 pm

So can you see the bellows emptying when the sample set is getting wind starved?

This is odd behavior. I've never observed the SP Freiberg behave this way … (???)
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Re: Freiberg wind model

Postby mnailor » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:03 pm

Yes.
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Re: Freiberg wind model

Postby adri » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:08 am

I am running this organ on 2 channels only and have only problems if flute stops are drawn with principal stops; otherwise even with full plenum no trouble at all (plenum in my case is always without the overly loud trumpets in both HW and Pedal, but with Ped. 32' and HW 16' Fagott).


Probably running the organ through 4-6 channels might be the culprit?
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Re: Freiberg wind model

Postby Grant_Youngman » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:51 pm

adri wrote:
Probably running the organ through 4-6 channels might be the culprit?


The number of audio channels shouldn't affect the instrument's winding … I have 8 audio channels, run the wind model at 150%, and don't experience the issue.

The only way I can make it run out of air is to have the "blower" (?? I can't read the German) turned off … that's the switch in the lower right on the Bellows page. It may be described in the documents that came with the sample set disks, but those are currently in storage and I can't get to them. If that switch is off, once the reservoirs empty they won't refill. Otherwise, I've been beating on it with a full Tutti, and it gets suitably wobbly but doesn't run out of gas as long as all four bellows are set to "On" and the blower is set to "On".
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Re: Freiberg wind model

Postby mnailor » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:06 pm

2, 4, or 6 is the number of sample ranks loaded per original organ's pipe rank, not audio channels, because I was talking about 2 channel stereo vs 4 channel surround vs 6 channel surround. Sorry for not being specific enough. So it's plausible that wind is used faster with 4 or 6 samples playing per pipe, only if the wind model doesn't account for the surround samples not actually drawing more wind. Since the surround samples have their own rank ids, maybe...

Thanks for your ideas. I'm still mystified.
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Re: Freiberg wind model

Postby mnailor » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:09 pm

adri wrote:I am running this organ on 2 channels only and have only problems if flute stops are drawn with principal stops; otherwise even with full plenum no trouble at all (plenum in my case is always without the overly loud trumpets in both HW and Pedal, but with Ped. 32' and HW 16' Fagott).


Probably running the organ through 4-6 channels might be the culprit?


It was common to draw the stopped 8' bourdon with the plenum when this organ was built, so I do add that to the principals.
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Re: Freiberg wind model

Postby Grant_Youngman » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:20 pm

mnailor wrote:2, 4, or 6 is the number of sample ranks loaded per original organ's pipe rank, not audio channels, because I was talking about 2 channel stereo vs 4 channel surround vs 6 channel surround. Sorry for not being specific enough. So it's plausible that wind is used faster with 4 or 6 samples playing per pipe, only if the wind model doesn't account for the surround samples not actually drawing more wind. Since the surround samples have their own rank ids, maybe...

Thanks for your ideas. I'm still mystified.


So am I :-)

Surround "ranks" (which don't really add to the pipe count, although they do add to the sample count), shouldn't drain wind faster. I have all of them loaded also.

Did you try just disabling the wind model on the Organ Preferences page? If that fixes it, then it's clearly some weird issue with the wind model operation or settings. Otherwise, maybe it's Silberman's ghost :-)
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Re: Freiberg wind model

Postby mnailor » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:08 pm

Yes, disabling the wind model "fixes" it, but makes the organ sound less realistic.
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Re: Freiberg wind model

Postby Grant_Youngman » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:15 pm

A little more experimenting.

On the Bellows page, when the organ is sitting idle, are the "Out" lights lit on all of the reservoirs? That's the right most of the two switches under the "On" switches.

If those have been forced off, the reservoirs won't supply air even if they are switched on. The "In" side will come on as necessary as each reservoir begins to empty.
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Re: Freiberg wind model

Postby mnailor » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:14 pm

Yes.
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Re: Freiberg wind model

Postby Grant_Youngman » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:08 pm

Well … I'm fresh out of ideas …
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Re: Freiberg wind model

Postby mnailor » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:03 am

Me, too. But thanks for trying! :D
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