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Armley: Tremulants

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Armley: Tremulants

Postby Rauschpfeife » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:00 pm

Hello Chaps.

It was about this time last year that I turned up to ask some questions about the Armley sample set (original post: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16728) as I was due a bonus and hoped to use some of it to buy my first new sample set in a very long time. Unfortunately, by the time the money turned up, the house was - it turned out - in the middle of a series of mild domestic "explosions" which required extensive repairs and redecoration and thus there was no money to spend on fun things. :(

A year passes and bonus month is upon me again. Thus far, the house hasn't blown up this year (touch wood) and come pay day I want to finally place an order for the set.

There's just one thing that's bothering me.

I've been working through the recordings, playing with the demo set again, evaluating it all (and getting rather excited about it) but the nagging doubt I have is the way the tremulants in the set seem to behave. They seem somewhat "abrupt" in their change between "on" and "off" states (and vice versa), which I suspect is to do with the change between different samples.

I'm not sure however. Could it be that that's how the real organ sounds? Are they as abrupt in the full set? Could it be that it's a peculiarity of the demo set? If it's just the way the sampling was done, is there anything that can be done to smooth the attack / release of the tremulant-affected pipes? Could I possibly have an old version of the demo set which has since been corrected / improved?

I know that this must seem like a tiny issue, but in the absence of a bonus from work, I usually have less than the cost of this set to spend on fun things in the average year, so I don't really want to spend this amount of money and then have it spoiled by lingering doubts.

Please don't misunderstand me - I'm hugely impressed with what Lavender Audio have produced (and particularly at the affordable price they offer it). I really want to buy the set and look forward to enjoying it, but I have to know that I've at least asked the question before I sign the cheque, so to speak.

With thanks for anything anyone can offer on this subject,

Adam.
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Re: Armley: Tremulants

Postby Hoofdwerk » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:58 pm

Armley , like many other good recent models, uses sampled tremulants. As you've heard, switching on the tremulant requires a switch between regular and tremulant samples. There's no easy way to do this; model makers have to retrigger whatever notes are playing with the tremulant samples. Same for the regular samples if you switch off the tremulant while holding notes.

Simulated (wave form) tremulants can have a smooth transition on and off, as they don't require swapping out any samples. The problem is that a wave form trem modulates the entire sample according to the wave form, all at once. What's lacking in that is the "mess" of early reflections. So for most non-dry applications, sampled trems are more realistic (despite potential issues like various notes not being in sync from a tremulant perspective). A few modelers have worked to improve the wave form effect by separating out left and right components and treating them a bit differently. With some delays and phase shifts, the modeled tremulant sounds better, but still can't (for my ears) match the realism of sampled tremulants. But, then we're stuck with the sample swap on playing notes when the trems are switched. So, no perfect answer yet.
Last edited by Hoofdwerk on Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Armley: Tremulants

Postby Rauschpfeife » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:06 pm

Ok - understood. Thank you for the explanation provided so swiftly.

I guess, from a practical point of view, the number of times one actually activates a tremulant whilst sustaining a note / chord is quite small. This probably means that with careful registration or appropriate musical pause, one can avoid the unpleasant abrupt effect I heard whilst playing around earlier.

I guess - I'm not sure - that the other sets I play probably have the modulated kind of tremulant rather than the sampled ones, as I'm not sure I've detected this effect before - or perhaps it is so rarely encountered registrational practice that I've simply never provoked it...

Thank you again, nonetheless. I'm satisfied and now hoping nothing in life blows up between now and pay day at the end of the month. :)
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Re: Armley: Tremulants

Postby 1961TC4ME » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:12 pm

Hey Adam,

Agree with Hoofdwerk, the switch is a bit sudden if you will, maybe more than others from my experience, and I'd agree is for the reasons Hoofdwerk gives. As he points out, to my ears as well, going this way for the tremulants is better anyways from a sound standpoint. I certainly would not let this very minor thing stop you from going with the Armley Schulze. I purchased the set over a year ago and I never tire of playing this instrument, it's that good and has been the best addition to my lineup for sure!

I think at the time you originally were looking at it last year I passed this very detailed write up on the instrument on to you, but in case I didn't or for anyone else here interested, here it is.

http://www.contrebombarde.com/concertha ... d/limit/10

Here's hoping you get this set!

Marc
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Re: Armley: Tremulants

Postby Rauschpfeife » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:09 am

Marc,

Thanks for the link - you did email it to me last year but I'll be happy to read it again as I'm going through the whole evaluation process once more. I don't think there are any doubts now, but it'll help pass the time between now and the end of the month. :)

I've been trying to compile a list of music I want to play on it - lots of English music which I haven't really focussed much on previously. Parry, Elgar, Stanford, that sort of thing.

I'll let you know how it goes. ;)

Adam.
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