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Simple or photorealistic stops screen

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...
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srw647

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Re: Simple or photorealistic stops screen

PostSun Oct 25, 2020 8:58 am

Jan Loosman wrote:

Why not use it.
Don’t be a purist just to be a purist.
Embrace these modern times.

Regards Jan


Because tastes and opinions differ. I much prefer stop knobs to tabs - you get decent physical feedback and are much less likely to hit one by mistake. I say that although I learned to play on an instrument with tabs.

I much prefer well separated reproductions of a traditional layout on a screen for a similar reason. It's not about being a Luddite or a purist for the sake of it, or about not embracing modern times. (How much more modern can you get than using the latest computer technology to enable the playing of the most ancient instrument at home?!) It's about taste and personal preference.

Someone in one of these threads has implied that they have a scripting tool which makes producing alternative stop layouts easy. There is an obvious solution - for them either to release the tool to the public or to release alternative stop layouts for people who don't like what the producers release. That would enable sample set producers to focus their limited resources on making sample sets sound even better.
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vpo-organist

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Re: Simple or photorealistic stops screen

PostSun Oct 25, 2020 9:07 am

Thomas344 wrote:Unfortunately I do not understand the sense of simple screens.

Then you have not read my post.

I wrote: "The most important reason is that I only have one monitor. I don't have room for a second monitor. So I needed a single screen layout."

Jan Loosman wrote:Embrace these modern times.

I could not have said it better. +1 :-)

This is a very emotional topic, where one can very quickly become unobjective. I do not exclude myself from this.
But if you reduce yourself to the essentials, a single screen can be practical.

What do I expect from a single screen as a minimum requirement?

- There must be one first, there is no doubt about that

- The Stop label should be clearly legible. The font does not have to correspond to the original.

- Pulled stops should also be easily visible from the corner of the eye.

- From the position of the couplers I expect that they can be found at the corresponding division (some manufacturers get bad ideas).

- For the couplings I would welcome a uniform naming, for example "Super", "Sub", " + II 4' " (or "+ II 4' (Solo), "+ II Reeds", "+ III", "+ III (Swell)" etc.) I use them in every set, so there is no need for learning. Here is a little sample.

- Further details are permitted as long as they do not conflict with the above points.
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vpo-organist

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Re: Simple or photorealistic stops screen

PostSun Oct 25, 2020 10:23 am

srw647 wrote:Someone in one of these threads has implied that they have a scripting tool which makes producing alternative stop layouts easy. There is an obvious solution - for them either to release the tool to the public or to release alternative stop layouts for people who don't like what the producers release. That would enable sample set producers to focus their limited resources on making sample sets sound even better.

My solution is not a scripting solution but I can support MDyde with ideas to come to a dream solution.

One solution is that the source code is as simple as my format. An example - the specification of
Code: Select all
Div II, Rows 4, II Manual, Great
Double Open, Diapason 16'
Open Diapason, No. 2 8'.

leads to this result.

A new line is created with a dot (=end of the sentence).

Whats that?
Code: Select all
C, /, + I, (Ch)

A Couple with a half Button width, first line with the text "+ I", the second line with the text "(Ch)" see here.

How can I define an empty cell/place? Use this: **, see here.
For an half empty cell/place use this: *, see here.

In the top lines I define default sizes (if a line starts with a "-" then this is a predefined option:
Code: Select all
- Columns 10
- ButtonWidth 156
- ButtonHeight 54
- StopFontLn1 13
- StopFontLn2 19
- StopFontLn3 19


...and header infos about the sampleset (a semi colon is a comment line):
Code: Select all
; Salisbury (MDA)
; 1877 SALISBURY CATHEDRAL HENRY WILLIS
; https://milandigitalaudio.com/18'77-salisbury-cathedral-willis/


It is perfect when HW can use this source to show a simple screen with this code. It musn't compile. I scan the source in C# (in the past I would have programmed it in Qt, but nowadays C# is the more modern solution). This is lightning fast and is displayed on an older PC without delay.

But this does not give you a connection to Midi. I can imagine a solution that I can assign the stop of a sampleset to each stop in the source by drag and drop using two lists (unfortunately I have no idea if you can realize something like this in an ODF).

As a addon later we can use any background images.

I hope to be able to improve the world a bit with my proposal ;-)
Last edited by vpo-organist on Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jan Loosman

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Re: Simple or photorealistic stops screen

PostSun Oct 25, 2020 10:27 am

srw647 wrote:
Jan Loosman wrote:

Why not use it.
Don’t be a purist just to be a purist.
Embrace these modern times.

Regards Jan


Because tastes and opinions differ. I much prefer stop knobs to tabs - you get decent physical feedback and are much less likely to hit one by mistake. I say that although I learned to play on an instrument with tabs.

.


I know i agree with you, but Thomas saying “ Exuse me. But i can only shake my head at such nonsensicale wishes” triggered my reaction. Why is someones wish nonsensicale?? Why is his opinion superior above mine?
Let’s have a openminded discusion please.

Jan
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vpo-organist

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Re: Simple or photorealistic stops screen

PostSun Oct 25, 2020 1:21 pm

Due to some posts I assume that there is not enough differentiation between simple and single screen.
With my statements I primarily advocate a single screen. That this needs a simplification in individual cases is a matter of nature.
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giwro

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Re: Simple or photorealistic stops screen

PostMon Oct 26, 2020 10:49 am

This is an interesting discussion.

As a sample producer, I find myself often in a dilemma....

- If there is no simple screen, some users say “I’d love to by the set, but it doesn’t have a simple screen”
- If we provide a simple screen, then some users say “but I want simple LR screens, too... and it needs to be either portrait or landscape”
- If we provide simple screens, but don’t do a more photorealistic version, then some users say “I don’t want to buy it, because I really like the realistic screens...”

I don’t think most of the HW users understand the amount of work necessary to do all of these screens. Each version requires specialized code and graphics.... in a perfect world apparently we’d have: a main screen that shows the console and pedals, a main photorealistic screen, a main simple screen, a LR photorealistic portrait/landscape, a LR simple portrait/landscape... then there are whatever other screens needed - pistons, wind, perspective adjustment controls, about....

That’s at MINIMUM 11 different screens to skin and code, maybe even as many as 15...

Don’t get me wrong, I believe in listening to customers requests. But, if I have to spend time, I much prefer spending it making the set SOUND it’s best. And, while the photorealistic controls are very cool, they are a pain to do... and, as my own eyesight worsens (yes, it happens after I passed 50 a few years ago) I find myself wanting to just use something simple.

So, on our latest upcoming set, there are the following:

- photorealistic console screen, used for detecting manuals, pedal, expression shoes
- single simple screen
- single LR simple with portrait/landscape
- pistons screen
- about screen

Is it a perfect solution? No, but we feel it’s the best compromise.... in this case there are so many stop controls due to the size of the instrument, that the simple screen really makes sense.

It is certainly good to have this discussion. And, thanks for all of your feedback - it is appreciated.
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
http://www.evensongmusic.net
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