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PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

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SKresge

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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostWed Nov 25, 2020 8:00 pm

Buyer beware, if you have a Mac, the install runs into an error.

Apparently, the umlauts are the problem. Sitting on an instrument I cannot use until they do a patch or redo the files . . . date undetermined.

Would have been nice to know before I spent the hour and half trying to install a organ that won't go.

Scott
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giwro

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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostWed Nov 25, 2020 9:26 pm

SKresge wrote:Buyer beware, if you have a Mac, the install runs into an error.

Apparently, the umlauts are the problem. Sitting on an instrument I cannot use until they do a patch or redo the files . . . date undetermined.

Would have been nice to know before I spent the hour and half trying to install a organ that won't go.

Scott


With all due respect to Scott, we just found out about this today, and it only affects Mac users. So, if you are one of the many PC HW users out there, this obviously won't affect you. For Mac folks, never fear - a new set of install files has already been created, but it will take some time for them to upload.... I wish I could snap my fingers and make it instantaneous, but we're going as fast as we can.

We try very hard to fix things ASAP, and while I understand the frustration, making angry comments like this on a forum has the potential to destroy the good reputation we've worked hard the last 2 years to establish. I know you want to play the instrument you paid for, and we'll make it right.

Best to all,
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
http://www.evensongmusic.net
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OrganoPleno

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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostWed Nov 25, 2020 9:31 pm

SKresge wrote:Buyer beware, if you have a Mac, the install runs into an error.

Apparently, the umlauts are the problem.


If you are comfortable digging in on a file-by-file basis, you can correct this yourself. Find your most recent "Organ Install Package" (should be # 001926), and you will see these folder names, some with Umlauts. Interesting that all of the ones with Umlauts are merely dummy placeholders, with NO actual data content. And they are never referred to by the Organ Definition File. If these were all deleted (or, safer, renamed to arbitrary unique names without umlauts), your installation should proceed just fine.

At your own risk... and Good Luck!
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giwro

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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostWed Nov 25, 2020 9:37 pm

OrganoPleno wrote:
SKresge wrote:Buyer beware, if you have a Mac, the install runs into an error.

Apparently, the umlauts are the problem.


If you are comfortable digging in on a file-by-file basis, you can correct this yourself. Find your most recent "Organ Install Package" (should be # 001926), and you will see these folder names, some with Umlauts. Interesting that all of the ones with Umlauts are merely dummy placeholders, with NO actual data content. And they are never referred to by the Organ Definition File. If these were all deleted (or, safer, renamed to arbitrary unique names without umlauts), your installation should proceed just fine.

At your own risk... and Good Luck!


3 of the 6 revised install files are up

Part 4 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UsO6r3 ... sp=sharing
Part 5 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oiEFQm ... sp=sharing
Part 6 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zjg4li ... sp=sharing

I'll post the remaining links as soon as they are up (and, email Scott as well!)

EDIT

Part 1 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gP5-wc ... p=drivesdk
Part 2 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1K_g7zM ... p=drivesdk
Part 3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yqKx2u ... p=drivesdk
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
http://www.evensongmusic.net
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SKresge

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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostThu Nov 26, 2020 11:54 am

I am very happy to report that the new files put up for download , do in fact now work for the Mac!

The error has been corrected, and the organ does indeed sound very nice!

Thanks Jonathan

Scott
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Purator

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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostThu Nov 26, 2020 12:45 pm

giwro wrote:
While I have deep respect for sample producers who put restrictions on the use of their sets (they often have to do so just to get permission to sample!) we try very hard to only sample instruments that will allow our users to use them freely. We've actually chosen NOT to sample in a couple cases just for that reason.

Best,

So today I decided to honour this stance by buying myself this set as a birthday gift (from me, to me :D )

The last few days I tested it and I have to say on word: WOW. The Principals warm, the Flutes a bit percussive, and oh boy did the Trompette need some taming :lol:

As for the interface - I know that you can't please everybody - I have one simple suggestion. One feature of the PAB interface that I really like is that you can turn off all stops in one Division with one button. This makes playing (for me) a lot easier. As for the other points that have been made here... I understand where the layout comes from and for me I think it just means changing my habits. I learned at an organ where the couplers are right beside the corresponding division. So, this means for me I either have to change my habits or finally get started with that stop tab project for my console...

P.S.: I never played such an American organ before. What kind of literature might be suitable for such an instrument? I played Bach, it worked, to me sounded great, but I am rather sure this organ was not built to only play Bach :)
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vpo-organist

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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostThu Nov 26, 2020 2:02 pm

I think the set is great too. I like the many possible combinations.

What I find fascinating is that 96kHz with the high definition option really improves the sound with this set. I cut off the reverb tails (250ms) and play the set with the included convolution reverb. That sounds gorgeous. These options give the set a completely different spatiality in sound.

Why is that so? I don't hear any improvements on my Hereford sample set.

@MDyde:
I would like to have a switch on the main page where you can quickly toggle this two options.
For the samplesets, where this option does not improve the sound, I want to be able to change it easily.

Does separating these two options make any sense at all? In which cases?
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mdyde

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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostThu Nov 26, 2020 2:22 pm

vpo-organist wrote:@MDyde:
I would like to have a switch on the main page where you can quickly toggle this two options.
For the samplesets, where this option does not improve the sound, I want to be able to change it easily.

Does separating these two options make any sense at all? In which cases?


Hello vpo-organist,

Changing the options do need to restart the audio engine/drivers, so you wouldn't be able to toggle them on/off in real-time. Also the 96 kHz option needs to be global (not per-organ) because it's highly related to the audio driver's behaviour and buffer size. (E.g. some audio interfaces change the audio device channels they present at 96 vs 48/44.1 kHz. and you would normally need twice the buffer size for 96 kHz, yet some audio interfaces require that to be changed via their own native control panels). Even aside from that, they would need to be separate options anyway, since enabling either one doubles CPU overheads (x4 for both), so many people would only be able to enable only one, due to available computing power. (The 'higher definition pitch shifting' is the one that gives the biggest benefit in most cases.)

Hence it does really need to be done that way it is -- sorry. (We spent lots of time trying different ways, and the way the options are implemented was what turned out to work best in practice.) However, as it is, it doesn't take long for you to change either option.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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giwro

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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostThu Nov 26, 2020 3:23 pm

SKresge wrote:I am very happy to report that the new files put up for download , do in fact now work for the Mac!

The error has been corrected, and the organ does indeed sound very nice!

Thanks Jonathan

Scott


You’re very welcome, Scott. Hope you enjoy it... sorry you had to be the one to find the bug!
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
http://www.evensongmusic.net
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giwro

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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostThu Nov 26, 2020 3:31 pm

Purator wrote:
giwro wrote:
While I have deep respect for sample producers who put restrictions on the use of their sets (they often have to do so just to get permission to sample!) we try very hard to only sample instruments that will allow our users to use them freely. We've actually chosen NOT to sample in a couple cases just for that reason.

Best,

So today I decided to honour this stance by buying myself this set as a birthday gift (from me, to me )

The last few days I tested it and I have to say on word: WOW. The Principals warm, the Flutes a bit percussive, and oh boy did the Trompette need some taming

As for the interface - I know that you can't please everybody - I have one simple suggestion. One feature of the PAB interface that I really like is that you can turn off all stops in one Division with one button. This makes playing (for me) a lot easier. As for the other points that have been made here... I understand where the layout comes from and for me I think it just means changing my habits. I learned at an organ where the couplers are right beside the corresponding division. So, this means for me I either have to change my habits or finally get started with that stop tab project for my console...

P.S.: I never played such an American organ before. What kind of literature might be suitable for such an instrument? I played Bach, it worked, to me sounded great, but I am rather sure this organ was not built to only play Bach :)


So glad you are enjoying it!

Bach does work well - I suspect any baroque music would. I’m going to try some 20thC German repertoire like Schroeder, Hindemith, Genzmer. Also, since it is large, you can really play a lot of things (although maybe not completely authentically! :mrgreen: )

As for the divisional cancels, at this point after everything has been done in the organ definition I think it would be a bit more work than we want to tackle... we’re already working on our next 5 sets :lol:
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
http://www.evensongmusic.net
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OrganoPleno

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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostThu Nov 26, 2020 4:14 pm

Purator wrote:I never played such an American organ before. What kind of literature might be suitable for such an instrument?


Perhaps.... American?
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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostThu Nov 26, 2020 4:45 pm

Thanks for your Feedback, Martin. You provide excellent support here.

mdyde wrote:(The 'higher definition pitch shifting' is the one that gives the biggest benefit in most cases.)

When I only use high-definition, I don't hear any difference. Only when I activate 96kHz additionally, I hear a detached sound with more acoustics. For whatever reason. Could it be that especially with Convolution Reverb an improvement can be heard?
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giwro

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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostThu Nov 26, 2020 11:36 pm

Carson Cooman has posted a nice little set of variations using PPC:
https://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/42762

Thanks, Carson. Wonderful "show-off" of the colors of this organ!
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
http://www.evensongmusic.net
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mdyde

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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostFri Nov 27, 2020 4:07 am

vpo-organist wrote:Thanks for your Feedback, Martin. You provide excellent support here.

mdyde wrote:(The 'higher definition pitch shifting' is the one that gives the biggest benefit in most cases.)

When I only use high-definition, I don't hear any difference. Only when I activate 96kHz additionally, I hear a detached sound with more acoustics. For whatever reason. Could it be that especially with Convolution Reverb an improvement can be heard?


Thanks, vpo-organist.

How much benefit each option provides depends a lot on how much (and in which direction) the pitches of pipes deviate in the organ from the recorded samples (e.g. due to your base pitch setting, temperaments, voicing tuning adjustments, tremulants, wind supply model, etc.), and the the frequency at which the producer has applied an anti-aliasing filter (and even to some extent that filter's characteristics).

Enable both the 'higher definition pitch shifting' and the 96 kHz options if you have plenty of spare CPU capacity, otherwise just enable whichever one you find gives the most benefit in your situation.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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smfrank

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Re: PPC Aeolian Skinner Released & Black Friday Sale begins!

PostFri Nov 27, 2020 7:27 am

giwro wrote:we’re already working on our next 5 sets :lol:

That's great. So, what are they :)
Steve
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