Nancy voicing questions…

Pat,

When you move the MSTR slider (or any other slider) in Organ settings | Rank voicing, with the desired ranks and parameter selected, do you see the small number under each note's slider to the right? That's the value I was talking about. Using MSTR, each note's displayed value should move by the same amount. (The bottom number is the current value. Above that is the lower limit of the parameter.)

When I said "to 6 dB", for example, I meant all notes were at +6 dB. That's 6 dB above the pipe's default amplitude, by the way, not an absolute level.

On page 205 of the user guide, see the number 0.0 at the bottom of each note's slider? Those are it.

Ah Yes…. Got it. Was looking below the Master slider vs the individual ones.

Thank you Mark!

Pat

Mark…

Another question: When you say truncate, I presume you mean you are reducing the length of the reverb “tail”?

I’ve looked in the manual a few times but haven’t found instructions on how to truncate releases from a sample like Nancy.

Is there a step by step list in the HW Guide to do this? I am not finding what I’m looking for there. And if you could provide a page in the HWVII manual, I’d very much appreciate it.

Thank you

Pat

Yes. Please see page 83, which explains truncating releases when you load the organ adjusting rank loading settings.

And page 257+ shows how to adjust Rank voicing parameters. The parameter you want is called

output persp 1 (front 1/main): release tail truncation length

Nancy isn't any different for voicing than St. Anne's, it just has a lot more ranks.

There isn't a step-by-step list because all the Rank voicing parameters are adjusted the same way using the MSTR slider unless you need to set notes differently. Repeating the instructions for hundreds of parameters would be insane.

Thank you again, Mark!!!

I keep looking for the “step-by-step” direction to do these things… and obviously our manual is not laid out that way.

Thanks again.

Pat

Mark…

I have deleted (stopped) both the Front and Rear perspectives now and I notice that, while not happening as often, the CPU meter still gets into the beginning of the red on occasion when playing full tutti.

I talked to Francois about a new computer and the latest Processor is the i14 series which came out 6 days ago and available later this year.

Is it your opinion that a processor having the number (?) 50,000 (on the new i14 versions vs my current i9 will make enough of a difference that I can use all 4 perspectives and not go into the red when playing full chords at Tutti levels?

Thanks for your thoughts once again!

Pat

Pat,

Can you please tell me what CPU model you have now? I'm looking for "i9-xxxxx" -- what comes after the i9 for your processor? Knowing your CPU model would make it easier to know whether you're getting what you can out of your CPU, and how much of an upgrade you could get from a newer CPU.

What sample rate and buffer size are you running? 48k / 1024 and 96k / 256 are two examples.

What is your polyphony limit set to for Nancy? 8192 is an example.

I can run all 4 Nancy perspectives with full releases and big tutti chords with the CPU meter never hitting red unless I play with my forearms. That's an i9-12900K (gen 12) around 40000 CPU Mark and 4000 Thread Mark. To keep the CPU out of the red, at 48k / 512 samples I have to set polyphony limit between 16k and 20k. At 96k / 1024 samples, my polyphony limit is 8k. ("k" means 1024)

I also have done all the Windows tuning for glitch-free audio.

Thanks.

Also Pat, are you running Hauptwerk as Administrator and with the box ticked to run at real-time priority? That's one of those critical Windows Tuning guidelines.

I need to repeat (from other threads) that buying a new, more powerful PC might not help if you don't do all the tuning to make Windows handle glitch-free audio. You have to learn to do that or hire someone to do it for you -- or buy a high-end Mac instead of using Windows.

I'd hate for you to spend more money on another PC and still have the same problem.

Mark,

I will look in detail this weekend for the information and print it out here for us.

Thank you!

Pat

Mark Nailor

Here are the details you requested from our previous discussion on the HW Forum page:

*CPU: i9-7900X @ 3.30GHz 3.31GHz. 7th Generation. My consultant says going to 14th Generation would help immensely but he won’t promise it will alleviate the red bar issue at full tutti. However, since you’re using 12th Gen, and don’t get the red bar issues with all 4 perspectives, I would think it should work.

*48kHz (maximum polyphony)

*Audio Buffer size (sample frames) 0512 reasonable balance of sound delay vs polyphony and resilience

*Number of Audio Buffers 4(most sound delay, most resilient to glitches)

*Total Buffer size: 2048(46.4ms@44.1kHz, 42.7ms@48 kHz 21.3ms @96kHz

*Not sure if you need this: Streaming Settings: Sample rate 48000 Buffer size 512

Thats all I can give…. Hope its enough.

Thank you again for your assistance.

Pat

[mdyde]

Hello Pat,

*Audio Buffer size (sample frames) 0512 reasonable balance of sound delay vs polyphony and resilience

*Number of Audio Buffers 4(most sound delay, most resilient to glitches)

*Total Buffer size: 2048(46.4ms@44.1kHz, 42.7ms@48 kHz 21.3ms @96kHz

Unless Francois specifically set the buffer size and number of buffer settings that way for you (in which case no doubt he had a good reason for doing it), try setting:

- Number of buffers = 1, and:

- Audio buffer size = 2048 (or you could even try 1024, if 2048 works well).

With most audio drivers you will get better resilience to audio glitches if using just a single larger buffer, rather than several smaller ones.

Just for completeness, my comments from facebook since Pat moved the conversation over there earlier.

Thanks, Pat. Could you please post the same on HW Forum? Based on nanoreview's CPU comparisons, the i9-12000K has almost twice the capacity of the i9-7900X. The i9-13900K has almost three times the capacity. The gen 14 CPUs aren't really out in off-the-shelf PCs yet and haven't been benchmarked.

Francois is right. If there's a tuning mistake, like sysmain not disabled, you can have red on the CPU meter and possible glitches with any Windows PC.

As far as Nancy goes, I'd say your CPU might just barely handle 2 perspectives if all the Windows tuning steps are done and Hauptwerk is running as Admin in realtime priority. Any missed tuning steps and you'll see red. The i9-7900X is really not up to a modern processor.

It would make sense to go to an i9-13900K or i9-12900K commercial off-the-shelf PC from a reputable company if you also get Francois to tune it for you and check it after any Windows updates. Since computers aren't your hobby, I wouldn't suggest a gaming PC or self build for you even though you'd save money.

Your settings of 48k sample rate and 4 x 512 buffers shouldn't be a problem for CPU capacity. If anything I'd have said use 1 buffer of 1024, since 40 msec latency is perceptibly sluggish. But that will make red a little *more* likely on the CPU meter.

By the way, max polyphony can't be 48kHz -- that's your sample rate. What's your polyphony setting on Nancy? With Nancy loaded, go to View | Mini control panels | Polyphony and see the number set there. That's the polyphony limit.

To check your Windows tuning for audio, please read and use this download: https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/

You might decide to buy their software, but I haven't tried it myself.

Thank you so much Martin and Mark!

My Polyphony seems to work best at around 5024. Once in a while I’ll make a slight adjustment.

At this point after talking to both of you and to Francois about this, I’m inclined to get a new computer altogether later this year with the proverbial “latest-greatest” hardware. The computer I currently use from Francois is from 2016, so there are certainly some major improvements in the hardware since then. But first, I do plan to adjust my settings to what you both mentioned to see how that plays out. Also, I am not enjoying the Nancy as much with only 2 perspectives, so I’ll put a third one back in and see how the CPU does. And hopefully if/when I do get a new computer later this year, I can use all 4 perspectives without it breaking a sweat!

Pat

[mdyde]

Thanks, Pat. Excellent.

Pat, since you're waiting for a Intel gen 14 PC anyway, I'd suggest also looking at something like a Mac Studio M2 Ultra 24 core with 128 GB of memory.

You might have to delay buying a new Mac until Hauptwerk supports Ventura -- I'm not sure if HW 7.0.0.136 does. I'll bet there are Mac users here who could tell us if Ventura works with HW 7.

EDIT: See Ray's comment below. Thanks, Ray!

I think there would be fewer technical details for you dealing with MacOS than Windows. It would cost more, but might be worth it.