Romsey Abbey

https://www.beautyinsound.co.uk/collections/bis-organs

It's here! Got mine.

No pics.
No specs (I understand it is extended)
Steve

True. BIS seems to be relying on their YouTube demos to show screen shots and discuss the settings and extensions.

Personally I hate YouTube videos as information sources. I like to read at my own pace, and follow links according to what information I am seeking, and to go back to particular sections later as a reference.

BIS doesn't seem to have gone out of their way fo provide the information that I would expect to have available in order to decide whether Romsey should be on my wishlist, nor a large enough introductory discount (6.25% for one week only) to bump it up the list (for me its main competitor is Peterborough).

Here is some more information about the sampleset.

It is provided as a single download with both original and extended editions: recorded in three perspectives (close, front, rear) the organ also includes action, blower and ambient sound. In addition to the usual memory system for the audio mixer, three presets are provided to emulate sitting at the console, choir stalls, or the nave.

Most of the audio processing was a very manual affair: Richard spent a very long time manually denoising, voicing, and providing an adjustable tuning touch-up rather than a mathematically perfect tuning. (I think it sounds incredibly alive)

Both editions feature delay (the swell and nave speak later than the rest of the organ, this can be turned on or off) which further adds to the depth of sound.

I have included screenshots of the specification taken from the simple (single stop display) screen for both editions below.

The sampleset is provided in 48kHz, 24bit, multiple loops and releases. Maximum memory requirements for the full edition with memory compression on is 46.5GB; A 16-bit load of the standard edition, all perspectives, all loops will take 19GB.

I do recommend checking out Richard's introductory video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7n4hfSwV2g
and I'm really amazed by Francesca Massey's live performance on the extended edition, including a fabulous performance of Elgar's Sonata.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgyGLtJkm6s

Jerry, I'm just wondering if Richard had someone press every key or did he use a robot like was developed for Peterborough. At first I hoped that robot (if it was effective) could be hired to anyone recording a sample. seemed a great idea to me.

Jerry, I'm just wondering if Richard had someone press every key or did he use a robot ....

Great question - but he did it the old fashioned hard way! He spent a few nights down there - every note, at least 8 seconds for the main loop and three release samples.

I've often wondered about the robot technique too and having done a manual sampling project myself, realize it would be an amazing way to save your sanity!

Our restored Kilgen will have a midi interface - so I'm hoping to use that in the future for such a project

Thanks Jerry, I don't know how he fits everything in. Live recording and sampling of organs, hosting BIS and raising a family. I think he was born with all the music he plays already in him.

I've often wondered about the robot technique too and having done a manual sampling project myself, realize it would be an amazing way to save your sanity!

Hi Jerry,

I can confirm how much it helps to have a robot of some sort!! A medium sized organ like Romsey Abbey takes roughly around 30 hours pure sampling time (plus setting up etc.), and I have caught myself quite a few times during sampling nights falling asleep and trying to remember which key I had hit last

I have constructed and programmed my own robots (one for keyboards and one for pedal), which does in fact post quite a few challenges also, like varying sizes of manuals on different organs, various pedal keyboard shapes, the requirement to be ultra-silent when hitting the note while at the same time being quite fast and strong, etc. It is such a great relief to just pull the stop and start the recording, then you have about 40 minutes time to read in a book and just monitor for noises disturbing your recording. And you can't beat the precision timing of the short releases by hand. Of course modern consoles with MIDI-In are even better

And having my own software controlling all that allows me to write a midi-track synced with the audio, so later on I have the cutmarks ready without looking for them (on some quiet stops and with a loud wind noise you won't be able to spot them easily), and in fact my software even listens for noises in between samples and repeats notes if the sound doesn't die out to the expected background level (due to a motorcycle or bird or ...).

Don't know if Richard is using anything fancy like that, after all, he is new in the sampling business.

Best
Reiner

Thanks Reiner, I think some more 'behind the scenes' stories would be interesting to read. Thanks for this information.

I have two basic questions about the sample set:
Firstly, why is the user screen so uncharitably done. It is a pleasure to play sets that are reminiscent of the original instrument. Here it is just awful and cheaply done.
Second: The instrument is highly praised by BIS. Why then did they offer such an extensive extension. It no longer has much to do with the original instrument. What conclusion can be drawn from this?
I will definitely not buy the instrument.
Thomas

Firstly, why is the user screen so uncharitably done.
Second:Why then did they offer such an extensive extension. It no longer has much to do with the original instrument. What conclusion can be drawn from this?

1-"I have included screenshots of the specification taken from the simple (single stop display)" which implies there are other screens, undoubtedly realistic. I always prefer simple screens.
2-Sets with extensions always have original screens for those who don't want them.
You can't please everyone all the time!
Steve

Personally I hate YouTube videos as information sources. I like to read at my own pace, and follow links according to what information I am seeking, and to go back to particular sections later as a reference.

BIS doesn't seem to have gone out of their way fo provide the information that I would expect to have available in order to decide whether Romsey should be on my wishlist, nor a large enough introductory discount (6.25% for one week only) to bump it up the list (for me its main competitor is Peterborough).

Hi Julian.

Sorry you hate YouTube videos as an information source, but YouTube is fundamental to how BIS is run. Through my YouTube videos, I present all of my information in a very personal way and in a way that everyone can understand.

BIS (I) provided a lot of information about the pipe organ, the sample set and audio demos prior to release - something which I don't think is very common. In fact, a walkthrough of the entire sample set was online prior to the release of the organ.

BIS is built around transparency, and I'm struggling to work out why you think that I've not provided information you would expect. I think the problem here is that I'm doing things differently to what you're used to, and not putting the information where you want it. I'm proud of the fact that I do things different to other people

With regards to a discount, I should say that, with respect, any discount is entirely discretionary on the sample set producer. It is unrealistic, and a little 'off' to muse about an insufficiently "large enough introductory discount". A new product coming to market rarely has a discount on its first launch, as much as we'd all like them to. I'd love the upcoming new Apple iPhone to have a large introductory discount, but we all know it's not going to happen.

I estimate that I've personally spent about 600 hours on this sample set, and Jerry Martin has also spent a huge amount of time on the ODF/coding part of it. Let's call it 800 hours in total. If we divide the £375 between us, for every sale we each earn about 23p per hour.

I'm very proud of the sample set, and it certainly sounds amazing 'in the room' and on headphones!

Best wishes,

Richard

I've often wondered about the robot technique too and having done a manual sampling project myself, realize it would be an amazing way to save your sanity!

Hi Jerry,

I can confirm how much it helps to have a robot of some sort!! A medium sized organ like Romsey Abbey takes roughly around 30 hours pure sampling time (plus setting up etc.), and I have caught myself quite a few times during sampling nights falling asleep and trying to remember which key I had hit last

I have constructed and programmed my own robots (one for keyboards and one for pedal), which does in fact post quite a few challenges also, like varying sizes of manuals on different organs, various pedal keyboard shapes, the requirement to be ultra-silent when hitting the note while at the same time being quite fast and strong, etc. It is such a great relief to just pull the stop and start the recording, then you have about 40 minutes time to read in a book and just monitor for noises disturbing your recording. And you can't beat the precision timing of the short releases by hand. Of course modern consoles with MIDI-In are even better

And having my own software controlling all that allows me to write a midi-track synced with the audio, so later on I have the cutmarks ready without looking for them (on some quiet stops and with a loud wind noise you won't be able to spot them easily), and in fact my software even listens for noises in between samples and repeats notes if the sound doesn't die out to the expected background level (due to a motorcycle or bird or ...).

Don't know if Richard is using anything fancy like that, after all, he is new in the sampling business.

Best
Reiner

Reiner,

You're lucky to have a machine that assists you in the sampling process. My fingers were my machine, and yes - I think I too had occasional unintentional naps during the process. The 4-6am slot was the worst for me!

Everything about this process was a manual love of labour... but what fun it was!

Best wishes,

Richard

I have two basic questions about the sample set:
Firstly, why is the user screen so uncharitably done. It is a pleasure to play sets that are reminiscent of the original instrument. Here it is just awful and cheaply done.
Second: The instrument is highly praised by BIS. Why then did they offer such an extensive extension. It no longer has much to do with the original instrument. What conclusion can be drawn from this?
I will definitely not buy the instrument.
Thomas

Thomas,

To respond to your first point "Here it is just awful and cheaply done". Thank you for that. Please can you let me know what is awful and cheaply done about the following touch screens?



To your second point. The Original Organ is fantastic, and is widely known as a brilliant organ. But it's not without its flaws. Don't forget that this sample set could have been released ONLY as the Original Edition. The Extended Edition is included at no additional cost. It is also up to the user whether they load the Original or Extended Edition.

I will definitely look forward to your response.

Best wishes,

Richard