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Metz Cavaillé-Coll Pre-orders begin!

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Extended Spec

Postby B. Milan » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:46 am

The web pages have been updated to reflect the extended stop list for the NDM-CC. Please have a look at the Extended Stop List. All additional stops are listed in light blue.
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Postby Anton Heger » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:21 am

Hi Brett,

There is a Metz-set now.
There will be a Metz-extended set.
Have you ever considered to create a Metz-mini set (2 manuals with 15-18 stops or so)? For those with less hardware capabilities, this would be interesting.
And, in that case, a smaller organ could also be cheaper, couldn't it?

Regards,
Anton
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Postby B. Milan » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:34 am

Hello Anton,

As you probably already know, you can disable ranks from loading using the HW options. There is also the feature to disable multiple releases now. Since the organ has couplers between all manuals you could still connect a 2 manual instrument to it and couple stops as needed. So, considering these features you can easily create your own 15-18 rank organ to load at will and change it around as much as you want.

Considering the set loads in 2.55 GB, or even less with the new 14bit option in HW3 (or 16 bit and disabling multiple releases on some ranks) I would think there should be no problem in fitting it within your computer specs. We do not plan on offering a cut down version since te set already can be loaded in such a small amount of RAM considering the size and extent of the extra samples.

I do appreciate your concerns with wanting a cheaper set, however considerable amounts of time and money went into this project, and we feel the asking price is a bargain, espcially at the introductory price. If you are in Europe, then the cost is even more in your favor due to the current exchange rate.

Thank you for understanding.
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Postby B. Milan » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:42 pm

Hello,

The memory requirements have now been posted for the extended Metz set. Please have a look Here to view them.

It's great to see that the extended 48 rank organ will fit very nicely in under 4GB using the memory reduction features within Hauptwerk. For those as daring as we are with 16GB of RAM, you can load the entire instrument with all features and loops at 24 bit comfortably also! Of course there are many more configurations possible, however just the minimum and maximum memory requirements have been posted. Note that in Hauptwerk 3 the 14 bit option is available which will allow the set to load in even less memory than stated on our site, however we would recommend not using 14 bit if possible.

Also please note that the extended version is being offered for FREE during the introductory period. After the intro period is over there will be a small charge for the extended ODF and it will be available for download. The samples will still be contained on the DVDs, however they won't be accessible without the ODF.
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Postby AquaStill » Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:00 am

Bonjour Brett,

the description of Metz organ on your site specifies that

"The original tuning is A=435 Equal. We have also included a temperament file keeping the organ at A=435 and Equal temperament, however this does not maintain the original tuning and plays the organ back in a more finely tuned state.

This is not clear, what is the difference ? I presume that the second A should be 440 ?
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Postby B. Milan » Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:10 am

Hello,

The main difference is that it is original organ tuning vs. a more finely tuned A=435 Equal. Also the organ was a bit on the flat side (the entire organ), so even though the original is A=435, it is not a perfect temperament due to natural causes of going out of tune etc. So, the A=435 temperament file will "tune" the organ a bit more perfectly while keeping it at its original pitch. You can then also choose the standard A=440 which is already built into HW. Or any other temperament for that matter, however I'd recommend not choosing a mean tone for this particular organ! ;)

All of the web demos use original organ tuning. Personally I feel it sounds best this way, but the option is there for users to choose any temperament they wish. Perhaps the wording in that paragraph is a bit confusing, I'll look into updating it soon, however they were both meant to say A=435.

I hope that helps.
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Postby AquaStill » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:27 am

Merci Brett : this more clear now with your explanation.
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Postby B. Milan » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:26 am

The extended version virtual console screenshot has now been published:

http://www.milandigitalaudio.com/ndm-ca ... l-info.htm

Scroll down towards the bottom and click on the image to see a larger view. Please note, the extended version is ONLY shown on the Full View display page, all other display pages show the original specification. If users feel that they must use the left and right jamb displays for dual touch screen use then you may want to consider setting up the additional stops on pistons or other MIDI stop controls etc.

Also you may open the Full View display twice and add one to each monitor, thus having every single control on either screen available for either hand to access.

We hope you like it!

P.S. we decided to scrap the version which came on 3000+ floppy discs (approx. 1/2 a sample per floppy!). 3 DVD-Roms seemed much more reasonable and compatible with modern computers. ;)
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RAM requirements

Postby cliveso » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:17 pm

Dear Brett,

Just some comfusion over RAM requirements. On your webpage you have quoted two computers which were tested to work with the organ. The Mac has 16GB of RAM while the PC has only 4GB. Therefore to my understanding, the PC needs much more RAM in order to load the full extended organ. Are you going test the full extended organ on a PC with sufficient RAM?

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Postby B. Milan » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:40 pm

Hello Clive,

The PC was tested with the extended version and it loads at 3.2GB. I believe that information is stated on the site already as "Extended version - 16 bit 48kHz-Single Loops Lossless Compression 3.2 GB". Since our PC for testing has 4GB, this shows that the full extended version can fit within that 4GB using the mentioned memory saving features within Hauptwerk.

If it is a question of running the full extended version on Windows with more than 4GB, then that is also not a problem since we are running Windows XP-64 via bootcamp on the Mac Pro. That is the only way to currently access more than 4GB of memory on any type of system (XP-64 or Vista 64). So basically, it was tested utilizing the full samples (all loops, 24 bit uncompressed etc.) on the Mac Pro running Windows XP-64 in bootcamp. As far as Hauptwerk is concerned it is a Windows computer, so it works just fine. Of course we have also tested the organ in OS X and since HW itself runs fine, the organ runs just as well but has similar memory limitations to 32 bit Windows. Both computers were running the 64 bit build of Hauptwerk 3 in XP-64.

Please let me know if that answers your question.
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Postby Geoff Lloyd » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:53 am

Hello Brett,

What memory did the extended version/ all features enabled load at in XP-64?

Regards,

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Postby B. Milan » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:41 am

Hello Geoff,

As also listed on the website the full extended version loads at approximately 13.6 GB. This is listed under Maximum Ram Requirements at the top of the page. Please have a look here for further info:

http://www.milandigitalaudio.com/ndm-ca ... ements.htm
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Postby Marco » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:00 pm

B. Milan wrote:As also listed on the website the full extended version loads at approximately 13.6 GB. This is listed under Maximum Ram Requirements at the top of the page. Please have a look here for further info:


I guess every user of these large sample sets must be hoping Martin will make hw3 network-enabled in the future, at these levels 9 mac minis (1 controller + 8 sound producing ones, for a total of 16gigs and amazing polyphony) would be way more cost effective, if you buy from apple.com 16gigs of ram by themselves would be more than the mac minis!
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Postby B. Milan » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:16 pm

I guess every user of these large sample sets must be hoping Martin will make hw3 network-enabled in the future, at these levels 9 mac minis (1 controller + 8 sound producing ones, for a total of 16gigs and amazing polyphony) would be way more cost effective, if you buy from apple.com 16gigs of ram by themselves would be more than the mac minis!


Hello Marco,

You certainly do not need 16GB of RAM to successfully use this set, again as written on the website it will load in as little as 2.5GB or less. Thus this is right in line with pretty much most other standard HW sample sets. The 13.6GB figure is simply the maximum amount needed to run every sample at 24 bit with all loops. You can still get perfectly adequate results using the 16 bit option with single loops and compression (as ALL of the current demos on our site are since they were recorded before getting the new 16GB machine). The only exception here is the Boellmann Toccata which was done in 24 bit + full loops.
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Postby Grant_Youngman » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:16 am

Marco wrote:and amazing polyphony) would be way more cost effective, if you buy from apple.com 16gigs of ram by themselves would be more than the mac minis!


I'm not sure how the arithmetic would work out on that. You can buy 16 gigs of RAM from a 3rd party for just a bit over $700.
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