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CAVAILLE-COLL DE METZ. SUPERB.

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...
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adri

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PostFri Sep 12, 2008 6:22 pm

what is the last option, "truncation" and what do the different options do, and how does it affect memory requirements? Effects on playback? I wouldn't mind have slightly less reverberant playback, as long as it is not totally dry.
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B. Milan

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PostFri Sep 12, 2008 9:57 pm

The truncation mode affects the release tails. The different options will perform fade outs on the releases thus freeing up polyphony a bit quicker than allowing the full release to sound.

There are different options to allow the user to decide how quickly to have that release tail fade out. Of course to achieve the most realism we don't recommend using this feature , but if you find yourself losing polyphony then you could try this and see if it helps at the expense of realism.
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adri

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PostSat Sep 13, 2008 8:27 pm

Thanks, yet:

Which tail definition still gives a very realistic playback and yet saves on memory requirements?

How much less memory is required per stop with a shorter tail? 10%, 15%? More, less?
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B. Milan

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PostSat Sep 13, 2008 8:32 pm

Hi Adri,

I can't say, we've never tried it with taking memory measurements. You need to experiment just the same as using the rank loading options to see what fits best on your computer. As much as we'd love to give every conceivable memory configuration within Hauptwerk it is nearly impossible and would take too much time away from everything else to do so, thus you simply need to see how it sounds to you personally and what memory differences there are. Perhaps you can experiment with one given rank while disabling the rest and load it a few times, each with a different truncation mode, and calculate the differences in memory (this way it doesn't take long to load for experimenting).

Personally I wouldn't want to use the truncation mode at all, but that is my opinion. You need to do what sounds right to your ear.

I hope that helps.
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adri

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PostSat Sep 13, 2008 8:55 pm

Thanks for the answer.

There is only one solution: back up everything on my PC and change OS to 64-bit and install 8GB RAM. I really need a MAC Pro with 16GB ! Where to get that lucky lottery ticket?!?!

Does truncation lessen memory usage only just a little bit??? If so, I am not even going to bother. If it makes a big difference, then the results are probably not that great, for the compromise sounds too large. I understand your position very well. The organ sounds grand as it is.
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SMann

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PostSat Sep 13, 2008 10:44 pm

Hi Adri,

I have done a lot of experimentation over the years with truncation and have found that while it can indeed substantially reduce memory requirements it also very much degrades the sound quality and realism of an organ. The wetter the sample set (and the Metz is *VERY* wet) the more severe is the loss of quality. Once the tails are truncated the only way to add reverberation back is by artificial means such as a hardware reverb unit or software convolver. The problem is that you are also adding reverberation to the attack and sustaining portions of the samples which are already wet to begin with. The resulting sound is dreadful.

Have you considered loading a "subset" of the Metz by disabling some ranks as an alternative to truncation? The resources of this organ are so large that it should be possible to create a very enjoyable smaller instrument that you could play until your circumstances permit you to upgrade your hardware and run the full set. "Metz Lite" may be your temporary solution!

Best Regards,
Steve Mann
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adri

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PostSat Sep 13, 2008 11:11 pm

SMann wrote:Hi Adri,

I have done a lot of experimentation over the years with truncation and have found that while it can indeed substantially reduce memory requirements it also very much degrades the sound quality and realism of an organ. The wetter the sample set (and the Metz is *VERY* wet) the more severe is the loss of quality. Once the tails are truncated the only way to add reverberation back is by artificial means such as a hardware reverb unit or software convolver. The problem is that you are also adding reverberation to the attack and sustaining portions of the samples which are already wet to begin with. The resulting sound is dreadful.

Have you considered loading a "subset" of the Metz by disabling some ranks as an alternative to truncation? The resources of this organ are so large that it should be possible to create a very enjoyable smaller instrument that you could play until your circumstances permit you to upgrade your hardware and run the full set. "Metz Lite" may be your temporary solution!

Best Regards,
Steve Mann


I am already doing this, but I miss having certain stops. Anyway soon I will have 8GB RAM, and will many of my issues resolved. But there is another issue: I only have the Basic Edition of HW3 and I wonder if I should upgrade, a rather steep proposition of $360.00. The Metz is a really a hungry RAM beast. There is no easy way around it.
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B. Milan

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PostSat Sep 13, 2008 11:18 pm

The Metz is a really a hungry RAM beast. There is no easy way around it.


Not really, if you use Hauptwerk's lossless compression feature you can load the entire instrument in under 4GB with all ranks playing.

http://www.milandigitalaudio.com/ndm-ca ... ements.htm

Particularly:

Standard version - 16 bit 48kHz-Single Loops Lossless Compression 2.55 GB
Extended version - 16 bit 48kHz-Single Loops Lossless Compression 3.2 GB

I think the main problem you would face would be running out of polyphony since the Basic Edition is limited to 1024 voices. The Metz will quickly exceed that if playing larger registrations, so upgrading to the Advanced Edition would help overcome that shortcoming. Of course you also need to make sure you processor(s) is/are up to the task as well.
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alandavid_123

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PostTue Sep 16, 2008 6:03 am

Do I need a velocity-sensitive keyboard to make the most out of the sample set? I know the Metz has multiple releases - does this mean that I need such a keyboard to be able to use these features?

Also, (a bit off-topic), is there any edition of Vista 64 that is most appropriate? I am confused by the 'Ultimate' package, which includes '32 & 64 bit Vista' - does this mean there are two separate versions of Vista, or simply one with the added 32 bit compatibility?

(Even more off-topic) I also want to get the Native Instruments' B4 - which doesn't recommend Vista 64 - is there anyone out there who is running this successfully on this version?

Cheers
Al
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mdyde

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PostTue Sep 16, 2008 7:33 am

Hello Alan,

Do I need a velocity-sensitive keyboard to make the most out of the sample set? I know the Metz has multiple releases - does this mean that I need such a keyboard to be able to use these features?


Multiple release samples are used in the Metz sample set to model differences in the decay according to how long a pipe has been sounding (not according to its attack or release key velocity). Hence a velocity-sensitive keyboard isn't needed for that.

Also, (a bit off-topic), is there any edition of Vista 64 that is most appropriate? I am confused by the 'Ultimate' package, which includes '32 & 64 bit Vista' - does this mean there are two separate versions of Vista, or simply one with the added 32 bit compatibility?


See also the 'operating systems' section on this page:

http://www.crumhorn-labs.com/Hauptwerk- ... ites.shtml

As also covered there, 64-bit operating systems allow much more memory to be used than 32-bit. 32-bit Windows (whether Vista or XP) is typically limited to only 2 GB (or 2.7 GB) of memory per application.

Hence 64-bit Vista is hugely advantageous over 32-bit Vista for use with Hauptwerk. Vista Ultimate includes both 32-bit and 64-bit Vista DVDs (you can choose which you want to install), whereas with other editions only a 32-bit Vista DVD is normally included and you have to send off for the 64-bit Vista DVD.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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alandavid_123

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PostWed Sep 17, 2008 4:47 am

Thanks for clearing up the keyboard query

So I must get the Ultimate edition to be able to get Vista 64 bit? I imagine sending off for the 64 bit version would probably incur quite a bit of cost

Al
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mdyde

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PostWed Sep 17, 2008 7:50 am

Hello Al,

Information on Vista editions and what they include can be found on Microsoft's website here:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/window ... fault.aspx

I don't know what the cost is for ordering the 64-bit CD for editions other Vista Ultimate, but I suspect it probably isn't that much (although of course it's an inconvenience).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
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ian99

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PostWed Sep 17, 2008 1:59 pm

alandavid_123 wrote:Thanks for clearing up the keyboard query

So I must get the Ultimate edition to be able to get Vista 64 bit? I imagine sending off for the 64 bit version would probably incur quite a bit of cost

Al


There's a Vista Business 64bit available which I have installed and I believe its cheaper and also supports two multi core cpus.

Ian
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bigwold

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PostWed Sep 17, 2008 3:13 pm

The OEM Home Premium 64 bit is a much cheaper option, but there are restrictions both pre and post intallation. If you build your own PC then IMHO that is the obvious choice for a single processor (including multiple cores) one.
Chris
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