Search:
Submit Search


Wich Cavaille-Coll to buy?

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Postby Jan Škvařil » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:40 pm

Organ in Caen (L'Abbatiale St. Etienne de Caen) has really 49, not 89(??) stops. After CC, only one stop (Plein jeu on Positive) was added and later removed again. The instrument, including console is thus largerly preserved in original condition. More, in 2001 it was restored so today it warks and sounds really perfect, there are no leaks, no Barker lever noise etc. Despite large space of the church, the acoustics is very pleasant and the instrument speaks very clearly, even with many 16´stops
Carillon is a kind of mixture, very sweet in sound.
Tremulant for Recit is, of course, present. Activated by appel most on the right above pedalboard.
The instrument is perfectly described in book of Robert Davy, which is not easy to obtain, however.
Jan Škvařil
Member
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:02 am

Postby Fazioli » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:58 pm

Great news!! I know this organ, I was there in the church and bought a CD. It really is a splendid instrument. I have several sample-sets from Sonus Paradisi and all of them are of a very good quallity. Worth waiting for!! uh... how long???
Fazioli
Member
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:59 pm
Location: Utrecht - Netherlands

Postby Stefanussen » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:17 pm

Indeed ...cat's out of the bag :) Perhaps Jiri could enlighten us. He probably hasn't seen this thread; I know he doesn't spent much time on the forums.
Rob Stefanussen
User avatar
Stefanussen
Member
 
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 2:55 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Postby PeterB » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:47 pm

The organ specification at http://orgue.free.fr/a5o7.html is not of the Caen C-C organ. It's the much larger organ of Saint Etienne-du-Mont in Paris, where Maurice Duruflé was the organist titulaire.
Last edited by PeterB on Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
PeterB
Member
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:01 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Postby Stefanussen » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:51 pm

Yes, my mistake, I will correct the link
Rob Stefanussen
User avatar
Stefanussen
Member
 
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 2:55 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Postby giwro » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:21 pm

I've had the opportunity to use both the MDA Metz and the OAM Ducroquet/CC instruments, and they both have strengths.

The Metz sounds a bit more like a Cavaille-Coll in some registrations - it's a bit warmer of a sound to my ears. The OAM instrument has a crisp sound, probably due to the inclusion of the ranks from the earlier Ducroquet instrument.

You'll find that the Metz will give your processor a workout - I have to be careful how much I use registration-wise, or it will bring my AMD 3800 dual-core to its knees. The OAM instrument seems to work fine on my machine even with fuller registrations.

I'd say that it really comes down to personal preference - either set is stunning. If you have an older processor and/or don't mind the licensing restrictions of OAM it is a good choice (and it's nice having the Pos. under expression). If you have a newer dual or quad core and want the Metz at a lower price, less restrictions in licensing, go for it. Listen to both.

I'm actually tempted to do a comparison demo of both sets and post it on contrebombarde.com - I could do it if there is sufficient interest, I suppose (and assuming there is no objection from Brett or Prof. Maier).

I'd really have to reiterate that it will come down to personal tastes - they are both quality work....

One further word about licensing - I know many of us have grumbled about restrictions placed by sample producers on what can be done with a set (e.g. no public performance, recordings, etc) and I have been among the grumblers. Let me just say that since the last time I grumbled about it, I have gotten to know some folks better that play these historic instruments. I think many of us (in the USA at least) have no concept of what deep national pride many European organists and churches have for their historic organ heritage, and how tenaciously they protect everything that concerns their welfare. Most of our instruments over here do not have anywhere near the years of history attached to them nor is similar honor given to those who preside over them. I still do not understand, really, (it's just not in my national history to do so) but I have developed a deep respect for their point of view, and I will not allow my lack of full understanding to be an excuse to criticize them. To be honest, I am surprised that we have even restricted access to as many historic organs as we do.

My best,
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
User avatar
giwro
Member
 
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:22 pm
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota USA

Postby Stefanussen » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:46 pm

Hi Johnathan, I would be interested in hearing your comparison. In case you didn't catch the discussion about contrebombarde.com & OAM sample sets, look here: http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?t=3432

Thanks for explaining your experience about restricted sample sets. I can certainly understand why people are very protective of their instruments as you described. I appreciate that us Hauptwerk users have "access" to the instruments that we do, but I still feel a certain bit of frustration at the licensing limitations.

I had an interesting conversation with Darryl from Classic Organ the other day. He said that in his experience, the virtual copies of the instruments seemed to add to their prestige rather than detract from them. I was pretty surprised at first, because the knee-jerk reaction of many seems to be to keep the samplers far away from their organs lest the virtual organ detract from the luster of the genuine article. I believe - well, no, I know that there is a stigma against digital instruments (see organforum.com). I think that when people start to see past this, they see that it very advantageous to have a high quality sample set of their organ.

Darryl mentioned that someone who had never heard of the Metz organ suddenly was interested and wanted to go see the real thing! It would seem that sample sets augment real organs by documenting and preserving them. They also allow more people experience a famous organ from the organist's perspective. Hopefully more organizations will be clamoring to have their organs sampled in the future.
Rob Stefanussen
User avatar
Stefanussen
Member
 
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 2:55 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Postby Benedict101 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:47 pm

I for one would welcome that comparison.

I find it fascinating to hear comparisons of our, and my favourite sample sets, such as those on pcorgan.com - a French romantic comparison would be more than welcome, imho.

Benedict
Benedict101
Member
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:43 pm
Location: UK

Postby OAM » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:12 am

Hello Jonathan,

thanks for your your comparison of both instruments and thoughts about licensing philosophy.

The Ducroquet-CColl and the Metz Mutin-CC are different instruments and both have their special area of music, which can be played.

As stated earlier in the organ history introduction
http://www.organartmedia.com/Aix-Intro.html
the Ducroquet-Cavaillé-Coll is a transitional romantic-symphonic instrument with both roots in late Baroque and early romantic.
Due to the Cromorne (!), the Sesquialtera (!) and the brilliant Fourniture and Plein Jeu, which are normally not existing or have a darker colour within Cavaillé-Coll organs, one is able to play the complete (French) organ repertoire, beginning from late baroque up to modern pieces.

Both instruments represent typical French symphonic sound and the customer has to decide due to his preferences.

I have no objections against comparative recordings on Contrabombarde.com concerning the DCColl, would be an interesting thing.

PS:
Concerning Bombarde 32 feet:
I didn't realize that for the DCColl by intention, because it doesn't fit to this instrument type and size.
The Bombarde 32 feet rank, which is very difficult to build and to voice (CColl himself was a master of this), only will be found on a few big CColls (usually > 60 stops).
Extended ranks on the Ducroquet-CColl are only those, which could physically be found and realized in practice in such an instrument. The virtual Basse acoustique 32 (with a 10 2/3 rank) makes a great effect for this organ.
Prof. Helmut Maier
OrganArt Media Sound Engineering
D-88662 Überlingen/Lake Constance
http://www.organartmedia.com
OAM
Member
 
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:08 pm
Location: Germany

Postby Jan Škvařil » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:42 am

prof Maier is absolutely right. Aix and Metz are different instruments. I like his Ducroquet very much. Not only French romanticism sounds perfectly, but thanks to baroque heart of this instrument, I found it perfect for instance for Böely, Mendelssohn and even some late French baroque. The most, it is (as always with prof Maier) perfectly processed sample set, eliminating some disorders of original, but preserving all its sound beauty. Unfortunatelly I have no experience with Brett´s Mutin. But if Jiri Zurek demonstrates his usual perfection on Caen Cavaille Coll (which is again another instrument, huge in disposition, only Recit having 6 reeds, in very pleasant ambience, in perfect condition, simply one of Cavaille Coll´s best), we have really much to look forward. it is really nice advantage of HW that one may choose from different instruments depending on repertoire!
Jan Škvařil
Member
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:02 am

Postby zurek » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:14 am

Dear Hauptwerk users,
indeed, our Sonus Paradisi team was in Caen and did record the Cavaille-Coll instrument there. It is real Cavaille-Coll instrument well preserved and carefully restored into the original condition, and as I learned from the R. Davy (he was much respected expert on CC organs in France) book about the organ, this Caen instrument is ranked among the 4 or 5 best Cavaille-Coll organs! As far as I know, it will be the first big, genuine Cavaille-Coll virtual instrument for Hauptwerk 3! It is quite incredible in its sonority (based on not less than ten 16' stops) and color (15 reed stops, plentiful mutations, rich Positif and Recit). This is big challenge for our Sonus Paradisi team. I can only hope that I will fulfill the expectations. Nevertheless, according to my experience it will be very good work since the acoustical conditions during the recording were almost optimal.
Now, there are some 3 bussy months ahead of us with the post-production to bring the sample set to life.

I was not prepared to announce this publicly since NOTHING is ready so far - no web, no demos... Those, who follow the Sonus Paradisi web pages know, that I have the habit of announcing the new instruments only when they are almost ready. This cannot be said about our Cavaille-Coll instrument. As far as the France is concerned, you can now enjoy our sample sets featuring classical French instrument of St. Maximin(for older repertoire) and the Forcalquier sample set which has very present and "spicy" sound good for great variety of repertoire.
I also hope that later today or at latest next week, another big surprise for the Hauptwerk community will appear as the work on our newest sample set featuring an important Silbermann's opus gets almost ready.
zurek
Member
 
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 9:38 am
Location: Prague

Postby Martin_Dümig » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:41 am

Very exciting news - Jiri!

--- edit --- sorry - didn't read whole thread - this link was already given several times...
Cavaille Colle: http://abbaye-aux-hommes.cef.fr/culture/musique01a.htm

Which Silbermann will that be? We already have two Gottfried Silbermann Organs with two manuals and one with one manual, but no one with three... and we dont have any Andreas Silbermann organ yet, which are more french in disposition...

Nothing yet to see on the homepage of sonusparadisi, so we have to wait...

Martin
Last edited by Martin_Dümig on Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
You can play Bach on every organ.
User avatar
Martin_Dümig
Member
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:54 am
Location: Germany, Bayern, Neufahrn bei Freising

Postby imcg110 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:02 am

This may excite!!

http://abbaye-aux-hommes.cef.fr/bouvet/page6/page6.html

Some sound samples from the site of Alain Bouvet, Titulaire of St Etienne
Last edited by imcg110 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
imcg110
Member
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:25 am
Location: Scotland

Postby Fazioli » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:17 am

imcg110 wrote:This may excite!!

http://abbaye-aux-hommes.cef.fr/bouvet/page6/page6.html

From the site of Alain Bouvet, Titulaire of St Etienne


It really is an nice instrument!
Fazioli
Member
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:59 pm
Location: Utrecht - Netherlands

Postby Jan Škvařil » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:47 am

Some pictures from recent recording.

http://skvarjan.rajce.idnes.cz/Cavaille-Coll_Caen/
Jan Škvařil
Member
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:02 am

PreviousNext

Return to Hauptwerk instruments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest