It is currently Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:25 am


Wich Cavaille-Coll to buy?

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Claude Oudet

Member

  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:45 am
  • Location: France

Another Cavaillé in San Sebastian

PostSun Sep 28, 2008 4:10 am

For those who would like to explore more Cavaillé-Coll, I recommand the CD "L'oeuvre d'orgue de César Franck" by Sasan Landale. Ref: Caliope 9941.2 recorded in 2002. Saint Sulpice in Paris and Saint-Etienne de Caen are used, but also Basilique Santa Maria del Coro de San Sebastian, built in 1863. I went to San Sebastian to hear this organ after many other CC. It is my preferred CC. I would be very pleased if an Hauptwerk version becomes available.
Offline

Claude Oudet

Member

  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:45 am
  • Location: France

34 Cavaillé-Coll

PostSun Sep 28, 2008 5:45 am

Maybe I should have mentioned the recordings of 34 Cavaillé-Coll:
"L'orgue Cavaillé-Coll" Motette CD 10761. 6 CD'
Offline
User avatar

giovdan

Member

  • Posts: 140
  • Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:09 pm
  • Location: Varese, Italy

PostSun Sep 28, 2008 3:13 pm

There is a curse, as I am concerned, on the metz CC organ!
When the set are ready and on shop for users, I can't buy it
because my PC system was not powerful enough; after a few
months, when I have changed my computers, the price of Metz
was too high for me..........
Today, with the necessary money for buy it, I have the news
that Mr Zurek is building a new CC, closer to my preference;
so, the great CC available will be three, Aix, Metz and Caen, all
very differents and all very interesting and very good.
Not knowing choose and bearing in mind that, for me, ideal is to have a set of sounds all dry, I think Skinner Masterworks is the best choice!
Will be the day for me, for a CC, when someone will carry out
the great Organ of St.Ouen, Rouen!
For Claude, i think that the ouvre of C.Franck by Susan Landale are
one of the best (with D.Roth and A.Isoir) but in Mottette Cd of D.Roth
ouvre of Franck, there are some piece plaied on S.Sebastian CC organ to!!!
One last question: if you know is a program dry version of these organs?
Offline
User avatar

polikimre

Member

  • Posts: 675
  • Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:39 pm
  • Location: USA, NC, Cary

PostSun Sep 28, 2008 3:55 pm

I think there's a clear pattern in Jiri's recent work :-) I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the new CC organ comes in both wet and dry. When Hauptwerk has a built-in convolver, dry organs will have a much larger market.
Offline
User avatar

giwro

Member

  • Posts: 613
  • Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:22 pm
  • Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota USA

Metz/Aix Comparison

PostMon Sep 29, 2008 12:52 am

HMaier wrote:Hello Jonathan,

thanks for your your comparison of both instruments and thoughts about licensing philosophy.

<snip>

I have no objections against comparative recordings on Contrabombarde.com concerning the DCColl, would be an interesting thing.


Dear Prof. Maier,

I'm grateful to have learned a bit more about the perspective of the caretakers of historic instruments - thanks for working to gain their trust so we can experience their instruments for ourselves.

I'm glad you don't mind the comparison! (and pleased to do it) The first piece is René Blin's Marche Nuptiale. I've tried as much as possible to use similar registrations so it is a fair comparison. It starts out with GO Fonds, Rec. Fonds et anches, next GO Grand Choeur, then Rec Fonds, back to Grand Choeur, then to Tutti at the end. I normalized the peak amplitude so that on both files it is the same sound level at the highest peak.

Metz: http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/443
Ducroquet/CC:
http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/444

I'll try something tomorrow or later with Voix Celestes and fonds.

Do note the differences - the Ducroquet/CC has a crisper, more articulate sound, the Metz is "smoother" and has a broad, profound Tutti.

This was fun!

Enjoy,
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
Offline

Dutch Brad

Member

  • Posts: 151
  • Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 10:47 am
  • Location: Netherlands

PostMon Sep 29, 2008 6:18 am

Thank you for the comparison. Neat music and well played!

Not only are the instruments quite different, so is the quality of the samples. The Metz organ has some pretty serious release problems which are best heard in softer music played quickly. I've heard this on all recordings of the organ by various organists, so I doubt if that is a computer related issue. In louder music this is much less obvious. In general though, I seem to hear more of a metallic sound than on the Aix instrument.

The crisper sound of the Aix organ also has to do with an extremely high quality recording of the organ and not only with the older stops in the organ. Which you prefer, the smoother Metz recording or the more articulate Aix recording, is of course up to the listener.

That being said, the Metz organ has very much to offer and is surely a great practise instrument.
Offline
User avatar

imcg110

Member

  • Posts: 831
  • Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:25 am
  • Location: Scotland

PostMon Sep 29, 2008 7:13 am

Thanks Jonanthan - it is great to hear the same piece played on different instrument.

btw - I presume it is yourself who has the wonderful youtube version of Blin's rosace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEc4rCt7VFU
It is a delightful piece - but on what organ???

Nice to see Blin's music available again on imslp - but not the Marche Nuptiale :-(
http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Blin,_Ren%C3%A9_Louis
Offline
User avatar

giwro

Member

  • Posts: 613
  • Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:22 pm
  • Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota USA

PostTue Sep 30, 2008 9:37 am

Another one of the comparison files - this one uses Voix celeste and Gambe followed by Fonds, returns to 1st registration.
Metz:
http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/446
Ducroquet/CC:
http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/447

I have to admit - I like them both, and really think they are BOTH distinct "flavors" of Cavaille-Coll.

Enjoy!
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
Offline

Fazioli

Member

  • Posts: 358
  • Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:59 pm
  • Location: Utrecht - Netherlands

PostTue Sep 30, 2008 10:52 am

Hearing those last two recordings, for Me the sample-set of OrganArt Media is so much more pure. It sounds like Milan Audio uses much more filters to reduce the hiss sound, while some of the Montre and Flute pipes do have a little to much hiss sound. This is my opinion, can't talk for others. They are both good sample-sets and that makes it not easy to choice. Also because the sample-set I think I like most, is the more expensive one of the two. I think I will wait till the new Sonus Paradisi Cavaille Coll comes out (whenever it will be) to make the right choice.
Offline

Anton Heger

Member

  • Posts: 321
  • Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:14 pm
  • Location: The Netherlands

PostTue Sep 30, 2008 12:29 pm

think I will wait till the new Sonus Paradisi Cavaille Coll comes out (whenever it will be)

Jiri spokes in an earlier post about 3 months, thus at the end of this year.
See:
Now, there are some 3 bussy months ahead of us with the post-production to bring the sample set to life.
Offline
User avatar

giwro

Member

  • Posts: 613
  • Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:22 pm
  • Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota USA

PostSat Oct 04, 2008 1:25 am

One more of the "comparison files" - this one is Var 1 Flutes 8. Var 2 Hautbois vs Flutes 8,4. Var 3 Fonds 8,4 adding R. Trompete on second section of the Fugue

Metz:
http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/448

Ducroquet/CC:
http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/449
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
Offline

OAM

Member

  • Posts: 542
  • Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:08 pm
  • Location: Germany

PostSat Oct 04, 2008 3:23 am

Thanks for the interesting comparisons and compliments for the excellent playing!

Do you can give more information about René Blin?
Widely unknown (for me at least) and sounding very interesting and talented.
Prof. Helmut Maier
OrganArt Media Sound Engineering
D-88662 Überlingen/Lake Constance
http://www.organartmedia.com
Offline
User avatar

giwro

Member

  • Posts: 613
  • Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:22 pm
  • Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota USA

PostSat Oct 04, 2008 9:51 am

HMaier wrote:Thanks for the interesting comparisons and compliments for the excellent playing!

Do you can give more information about René Blin?
Widely unknown (for me at least) and sounding very interesting and talented.


You are very welcome, dear Professor, and thanks for your kind words!

Here is what I know of Blin:

René Émile Camille BLIN, born November 13, 1884 in Somsois (Marne Department, France), started a law degree, but then abandoned it to become the pupil of Joseph Jemain, Alexandre Guilmant, and Vincent d'Indy at the Schola Cantorum. He wrote masses, motets, Noëls, melodies, as well as music for the piano and for the violin. He succeeded Joseph Boulnois as organist at Ste-Élisabeth-du-Temple (Paris) in 1910.

Interestingly, Léonce de Saint-Martin, organist at Notre-Dame, dedicated one of his works in 1940 to “René Blin, organiste de chœur de N.D. de Paris”, indicating that Blin also played at the choir organ at Notre-Dame. It is unclear if Blin resigned from Ste-Élisabeth to take up this position, or if he kept both positions until his death in 1951.
Blin also dedicated a piece to Saint-Martin, his Rosace for organ, a sensual and haunting Impressionist evocation of the changing colors of a stained-glass window as the sun sets.

In addition to the pieces I've already mentioned, Blin wrote a monumental 62-page Symphonie in Bb for organ, Trois Pièces, Toccata, Suite Héroïque, Fugue, Marche Funèbre, Offertoire pour la Présentation de la Sainte Vierge, Fughetta sur le "Ite missa est", Litanies, Memento Verbi Tui, Stella Matutina and Refugium pecatorum. I'd dearly love to find the last 11 in this list, as I have not been able to locate them, and if they are of similar quality to the rest of his works, it would be wonderful to see them come once again to light and be played.

Kind regards,
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
Offline

Antoni Scott

Member

  • Posts: 820
  • Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:18 pm

Re: Wich Cavaille-Coll to buy?

PostThu Aug 20, 2009 10:32 pm

Which to buy is the tough question. The Metz has a grand sound with a marvellous pedal Bombarde. It's recorded position relative to the organist's position is compromised somewhat, so sounds a little distant, but very impressive none-the -less. The Organ Art version lacks the 32' reed which is a big disadvantage, but it too, is an impressive sample. It has a more up front and personal feeling and a little different tutti. The Caen has the best of both worlds with the surround option which allows you to tailor your effect based on your preference ( the only French Cavaille-Coll sample that has this). The 32' reed is a little disappointing and ther Recit does not have an Super- Octave coupler to add extreme brilliance, but this sample is quite impressive. The individual stops ( i.e the 16' Quintaton and Bourdon ) have a better clarity, but the tutti is no different than the Metz. The lack of a super-octave coupler on the Recit is an disadvantage.

In short, I cannot recommed any ONE sample. All three are amazing. To recommend one sample would be to deny the advantages of the others. I have the Metz and the Caen and love them both.

Antoni
Offline
User avatar

PeterB

Member

  • Posts: 107
  • Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:01 am
  • Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Wich Cavaille-Coll to buy?

PostFri Aug 21, 2009 7:55 am

The Caen Contrebombarde 32' can be spruced up quite successfully using the voicing page: just increase the volume to about the double, then alter the brightness to the darkest possible setting. The Caen Contrebombarde then becomes completely convincing. This is a setting I use regularly and you can find it in all my recordings.

Other differences: the Metz does not have a Nasard 2 2/3' in the Récit, but on the other hand it has both a 2' and a 1' in the Positif, which the Caen does not. The Metz does not have any kind of Positif mixture, but there are plenty of mutations as a perfectly acceptable substitute. Also, which occasionally might be important in the symphonic repertoire, the Caen has a Bourdon 16' in the Positif, which is absent in the slightly smaller Metz.

Which one you should get also depends a little on what you intend to use it for. The Metz is slightly less ideal for practicing, since it is a rather forgiving sample set - it will "hide" the occasional mistake. This might be good or bad, depending on your personal intentions. The Caen is sometimes described as having been sampled "close up", which actually isn't true - the acoustics of the cathedral are really exceptionally clear. Try reducing the default setting of the key and pedal noises a little, and you will see that the sound picture changes quite a bit.

The Metz requires a little less processor resources than the Caen, which might be important for those with older processors. I use both, love both, and switch between them quite often.
Current project: http://acusticumorgan.com
PreviousNext

Return to Hauptwerk instruments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests