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Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby phulshof » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:01 am

Once you have taken the initial cost for a Hauptwerk system (like you have to my knowledge), 690 Euro is really all that's needed to get you a completely new 47+6 stop organ of this beauty and historical importance.


The price is of course a result of the low volume in which these sample sets are sold. I can't help but wonder though if halving the price would more than double the sales. Although this organ is one of the sample sets I have ordered due to its beauty (so worth its price to me), I think I would own more than twice the amount of sample sets if the price of all sample sets was halved.

By the way, the first recording that attracted me to this organ was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvozjEbsLa8&feature=PlayList&p=4B8D7A42CB67868B&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=60. I find that Stamm's playing style and registration brings out the beautiful clear sound of this organ.
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Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby deWaverley » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:43 pm

Of course I was just being (wistfully) humorous - I know if it's OAM it'll be worth every penny.

It's just that, from my perspective, it represents nearly 10% of my entire yearly income from teaching!...and with 3 children to feed, obviously I can't hope to go on spending that amount on my personal indulgence. I realise that almost everyone else here is retired and blowing their kids' inheritance on their passion ( :P ), so money is less of an issue.

Anyway, as I have Sauer, Vollenhove, Georgenkirche and Metz - I suppose I can't really complain that I'm under-supplied with quality Organware!

...would be nice though!

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Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby Fokko » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:26 am

deWaverley wrote:Of course I was just being (wistfully) humorous - I know if it's OAM it'll be worth every penny.

It's just that, from my perspective, it represents nearly 10% of my entire yearly income from teaching!...and with 3 children to feed, obviously I can't hope to go on spending that amount on my personal indulgence. I realise that almost everyone else here is retired and blowing their kids' inheritance on their passion ( :P ), so money is less of an issue.

Anyway, as I have Sauer, Vollenhove, Georgenkirche and Metz - I suppose I can't really complain that I'm under-supplied with quality Organware!

...would be nice though!

deW


Hmm. I feel the same...but I am very glad with the power of Hauptwerk and the few beauties of samplesets I did have collected the last years...:-)
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Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby M. van der Grond » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:28 pm

After a long time reading this forum, this is my first post. My poor English is the reason of my lack of posts, while I am a language-teacher. No, not the English one...

I've read a lot posts from people who complained about the prices of the samplesets. A better photocamera is an expensiver one (although everyone says a good photographer can make good photos with a bad camera.) Yes, i want the best for a few bugs, but it isn't realistic.

Maybe its a repost, but here are my two cents:
I hope our rich fellow-citicens will support the sampleset-creators so i have the choice to spend my few euros on a beautiful intstrument. When they didn't exist, i haven't a choice at all! This organ is a very good addition to the samplesets, although i wouldn't buy it, because i just bought volume 1 from the Bovenkerk. And a euro you can spend just once...

But everyone has a dream:
Once upon a time, sampleset-creators behaved like pcgameproducers. As an organ was published, it costs a lot of money, but after a year, you buyed it for less than half the price!
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Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby martinus » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:53 pm

M van der Grond,

Sample set producers work hard so we can enjoy beautiful pipe organ samples and they are worth every penny you pay for them.

Martinus
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Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby phulshof » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:02 pm

martinus wrote:Sample set producers work hard so we can enjoy beautiful pipe organ samples and they are worth every penny you pay for them.


I'm sorry, but I'm afraid this is where I have to disagree with you. A sample set is only worth as much as people are willing to pay for it, and sample set producers can decide to either go for high prices and low volume, or low prices and high volume. Of course it's up to them to decide how they wish to make a return on their investment, but considering their love for their work I would expect them to prefer low prices with high volume so that as many people as possible can enjoy the fruits of their labour. It also makes a lot of sense, just like in any other product line, to lower the prices of a sample set as it grows older, as its relative value decreases with time. In this, I agree with M. van der Grond.
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Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby Jim Reid » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:35 pm

Of course such basic bizz school buzz knowledge (propounded in the post above)
piped into the heads of MBA students, is obvious clapp trash. And runs the exact opposite of quality
product production for the market.

The most clear and quite large, world wide market for such is the
Mercedes-Benz automobile from Stuttgart, Germany (I toured the
factory there in 1967, buying a product while there at good, but
very high price for my use to move about Europe; later had it
shipped home to US after returning it to the factory. For anotrher high,
but fair price, it was shipped to the local MB dealer in the US, who certified
it to me as factory perfect on my pick up back home.)

Mercedes has never lowered a price, and has kept the identical models in production,
and world wide distribution for a decade or longer! Quality, reliable, personal
and courteous support for that original MB product with your continued support
to your local dealer for any service need, ensures years of excellent performance
and reliable operation from a great and quality piece of engineering. That
particular MB, we drove all over the Western US mountain and desert states,
touring our kids about every National Park and forest, with reliability and
NEVER a hint of any mechanical problem. After those 10 yraes, we had run
up just more than 200,000 miles on the odometer. Our next oldest son
received that MB at that time, and drove it all about So. Cal., including
every year up into the ski world for sport as he went through all the years
to his degree from USC (which always had a costly alumni support for a world class,
championship football team, well supported to quality, by quality education
received from the University by thew alumni). By the way, USC seems to have
never lowered their year-following-year cost of reliable quality education.

Obviously, true quality/service never is discounted nor cheapened!
Jim Reid
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Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby JimB » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:41 pm

In the electronics world as new chips/products are released the older and less powerful chips/products are reduced in price. Since sample sets have improved dramatically in quality over the lifetime of Hauptwerk, it only makes sense that older sample sets are reduced in price. Look at the prices charged by Sonus Paradisi for some of the older sets.
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Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby M. van der Grond » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:15 am

On the other side: according to the 'real electronic organprices' (like Johannus, Allen, etc), they are very much higher priced than a decent hauptwerk-installation. Domus/Viscount has an extender, the CM-100. With that module you can choose 12 voices at a time, and play with buttons till you have the sound you like. It costs a 2500 euros!
A link: http://www.viscount.it/classicorgans/pr ... 1103111188

For that price you could buy the Trost and Hinz together!
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Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby phulshof » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:30 am

Jim Reid wrote:Of course such basic bizz school buzz knowledge (propounded in the post above)
piped into the heads of MBA students, is obvious clapp trash. And runs the exact opposite of quality
product production for the market.


That's exactly the difference between finite and infinite goods. A sample set, unlike a Mercedes, has a variable production cost of practically 0. As such, it makes perfect sense to distribute the fixed cost over as many copies as possible as long as sales increase faster than the price drops. As said though: this is totally up to the sample set producer. It's his/her product, so she can set the price and the sales according to his/her own wishes.

As for 'real electronic organprices': That's one of the reasons I'm buying a Hauptwerk organ rather than a Domus: price vs quality, Hauptwerk is miles ahead. That's either an opportunity to raise prices or to take market share; again: up to the developers. In this case it got them market share, since I ordered a Mixtuur organ with Kampen I, II, and III, and of course the Trost organ, rather than the Domus organ I had originally planned to buy.
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Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby phulshof » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:14 pm

What's also interesting in this regard is PCOrgan, and click on RelPr to get an ordered sample set list on price per register. Of course this needs to be combined with the quality of the sample set, but Binns, Haverhill extended makes an excellent chance of being my next sample set purchase.

Too bad the OrganART Media license does not allow for comperative musical performances to be placed on this site. I find the comparisons of the same music on different organs very enlightening.
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Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby grobgedackt » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:28 pm

I just ordered my copy of the Trost-organ set. Although its not quite a 'steal' - and I am not even a modest organ player - I couldn't resist.
Its always a miracle to me, how Prof. Maier got that number of stops in this quality and even with sampled trems to fit in just 6.5 GB (and that with 24 bits) !
I can't wait to get my hands on it. (Please excuse my poor english.)
Regards Michael
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Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby jleyman » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:11 pm

phulshof wrote:What's also interesting in this regard is PCOrgan, and click on RelPr to get an ordered sample set list on price per register. Of course this needs to be combined with the quality of the sample set, but Binns, Haverhill extended makes an excellent chance of being my next sample set purchase.

Too bad the OrganART Media license does not allow for comperative musical performances to be placed on this site. I find the comparisons of the same music on different organs very enlightening.

Here we go again. This thread has obviously derailed into yet another tiresome discussion about overall price and price per stop. What's the problem? The reality is that this market is a very narrow one and that the time and cost to produce sets of the highest quality quite simply dictates the price level. You say that the market would be bigger if the prices were lower. Well, if as little as 10% of the 1303 currently registered HW forum members would commit themselves to buy one copy each of the top notch sets we would certainly see a different price level for these. But who could tell in advance that this increase in demand really would happen? The cost to produce the very best sets is still what it is -- many hundreds of working hours, admittance and license fees (often a substantial cost), travelling and hotel costs, just to mention the variable costs. Fortunately there are quite a few low priced sets and also some free ones, so even at a restricted budget you have a fair amount of sets to choose from. If you think the quality of these cheaper sets does not match the more expensive ones, that would be the obvious answer why the later are more expensive.
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Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby M. van der Grond » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:27 am

Many readers, buyers and other people who are interested in Hauptwerk don't buy great samplesets because its high price. Phulshof didn't mention the expensiver ones are the same quality as the cheaper ones. Without buying one you can compare the Hinz-demo and the St. Anne's Mosely. But if it is possible (and again, I don't want our samplesetcreators goiing down like banks) I prefer a lower price.
I don't know exactly who on this forum is a samplesetcreator and who isn't. But NEVER I heard about customers who wants high prices, except in this forum...

But this is the Trost-thread, and man, I love al those samplesets! And yes, I want lower prices because I'm jealous :oops:
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Re: Trost organ ready for taking pre-orders

Postby phulshof » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:58 am

jleyman wrote:This thread has obviously derailed into yet another tiresome discussion about overall price and price per stop.


While I do agree that perhaps the moderators should split this thread off into the general discussion section, I don't see a reason why a discussion about price is a bad one. You call it "yet another" thread, which means it's obviously something that keeps people busy. The 2009 Hauptwerk survey also showed that price is a rather important reason for people not to buy a new sample set (too expensive!). An article on Musik and Theologie stated that price may be keeping the Hauptwerk market artificially small. Of course this is a producer's choice, but I wonder if it makes sense from a marketing perspective to take a critical look at the price. I think Professor Maier's choice to use an introductory price is a very smart one in that regard. In the end it's up to the sample set producers, but I don't think it's bad for the customers to let them know how they feel. In the mean time, I think my choice of sample set purchases shows clearly that I found the relative expensive Kampen and Trost sample sets worth their price. They are both beautiful recordings of beautiful instruments, and I hope that my purchases will help the producers to continue their work.
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