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Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby ggoode_sa » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:54 pm

Hi Guys,

I've been working on understanding the structure of Mixture ranks and how to create them from individual sample ranks in Hauptwerk. To aid me in that endevour I created a conglomerate 4 manual with pedals 'English Cathederal' style of organ via the CODM using free samples from the St Anne's, St Augustine's, St Stephen's, and the Prudhoe Methodist churches. I've been asked to share the organ, even though it is still unfinished and very much a 'work in progress'.

If you want to follow the great discussion on creating mixture ranks read http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6119

More information, plus the download links of the stop list, CODM xml file, and the HW3 installation file can be found here : http://www.sa-virtualorgans.co.za/HW3-EnglishCathedral.htm. Please comment on the stop list and make suggestions that could make it better... the only limitations currently are that the Pedal, Choir, Swell and Great can only have 16 Stops each, with the Solo having 12 (limit of the screen size and readability).

*Edit: The original installer has been replaced with a further updated one as of 24th February 12:50pm GMT+2

Here is pic of the virtual console:
Image

All constructive comments, wishes, questions, :shock: etc are welcome

GrahamG
Johannesburg, South Africa
Last edited by ggoode_sa on Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:56 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby kkiiwwii » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:35 am

Graham, something has gone wrong. When trying to install your new organ, a message came up - the organ requires a more recent version of ID package 720 (St Augustines). Please contact the suppierto obtain, etc. I downloaded last night over 10 hours 1.6GB for the .rar file. Installed it, but still get the same message when trying to install your English Cathedral Organ. If it is an older version, where do I get the updated one from - or should I have uninstalled the existing one first?
I had thought installing what was hopefully the update version would have overwriten the earlier one?
Charles Seppings
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Re: Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby ggoode_sa » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:41 am

Hi Charles,
Nick released a 1.01 patch version of the St Augustine's - you can get it from http://www.appletonit.com.au/nickspage/StAugustinesNeutralBay_v1.01_from_v1.00.CompPkg.Hauptwerk.rar. This should update the St Augustine's to the version that my conglomerate organ uses. (I had Nick's original 1.00 release which was updated with this one, so I hope it works the same for you)

If you're still having trouble please let me know and I'll troubleshoot further. There are manual steps to get it right so I could send those to you too.

GrahamG
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Re: Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby kkiiwwii » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:20 am

Good to see you are online, and thanks for advise re updgrade of St Augustine - an easy one. Now the "cathedral" starts to load and at about 2%, comes up with error code 0053. Can not open pipe/pedal violon 16/066.wav. Suggests log on as administrator; reboot, or reinstall hauptwerk. Which do you suggest. I know a little about logging on as administrator if you can right click, but if it doesnt ask to log on as such, how or when do you do it? I thought it best to ask you as others may have the same problem
Charles
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Re: Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby mdyde » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:26 am

Hello Charles,

Now the "cathedral" starts to load and at about 2%, comes up with error code 0053. Can not open pipe/pedal violon 16/066.wav.


Error 53 is a generic 'file not found' message. Hence it suggests that the violon sample you mention isn't present.

(Don't worry about logging on as an administrator - that's probably not relevant in this case - it's a generic message.)

(If you use 'Help | View error/activity log' you will be able to see the log file and the full error message, including the full file name/path of the missing file.)

Perhaps use 'File | Create a diagnostic file' to email a diagnostic file (which automatically includes your log) to Graham so that he can see which file is missing and potentially advise on whether any prerequisite sample set components are missing or incorrect.

Graham - you can use 'File | View/extract the contents of a diagnostic file' to extract the resulting file.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby kkiiwwii » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:39 am

thanks Martin - will start agin tomorrow evening, after the rebooting etc, and if no luck will follow your advice
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Re: Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby ggoode_sa » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:43 am

Deleted
Last edited by ggoode_sa on Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby mdyde » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:29 am

Hello Graham,

I've just downloaded and had a look at your FreeCathedral.CompPkg.Hauptwerk.rar file, and I can see the problem.

You've included some files in it for installation packages 000720 and 000741, which are Nick Appleton's / Bob Collins' St. Augustine's and St. Stephen's sample sets, i.e. they are existing, third-party sample set producers' packages.

Any files you want to add or change must be in your own, unqiue, allocated, non-overlapping installation packages. Under no circumstances should any files be altered in any other sample set producer's installation packages, otherwise you will potentially break those sample set installations on the user's computer.

See the component installer section in the sample set creators' guide for how to use installation packages and their IDs.

Very important: as you currently have it, your FreeCathedral.CompPkg.Hauptwerk.rar file will potentially either break both the St. Augustine's and St. Stephen's sample set installations, and/or make it impossible for them to be upgraded subsequently, and/or conflict with them, and/or prevent itself or those sample sets from being installed properly.

Hence please correct that as ASAP - any files you've created or changed must only be included in your own installation package, which must used a package ID that you've been allocated by us, to ensure that they're globally unique. Likewise for organ IDs. If you need any IDs allocated to you, please just contact us by email and Brett will allocate ranges to you (at no charge). You've also included a package with ID 537300, which I can't find in our database of allocated package IDs, but please verify that with Brett if you've previously been allocated that ID.

To anybody that's tried to install the FreeCathedral.CompPkg.Hauptwerk.rar package, please follow these steps to repair the St. Augustine's and St. Stephen's sample set installations:

- Select 'File | Un-install ...' in Hauptwerk.

- Find the entry "Data: St. Augustine's, Neutral Bay" in the left-hand browse list.

- In the right-hand pane select 'un-install' for the action.

- Now find the entry "Data: St. Stephens Anglican Organ" in the left-hand browse list.

- In the right-hand pane select 'un-install' for the action.

- Click OK to uninstall those two sample sets.

- Now re-install the latest versions of those two sample sets.

If you want to try Graham's English cathedral organ, please then wait until Graham's had a chance to correct it first.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby ggoode_sa » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:48 am

Hi Martin,

Thanks for pointing this out! I really don't want to mess anyone elses installations up...

As I mentioned in my post, this is an experimental work in progress, so the installer was simply a way for me to get the files and odf from my laptop to my desktop. So, the extra files for the St Augustine's and St Stephen's add to compass of their manuals to get 32 notes in the Pedal and 61 notes in the manuals (and correct three notes in the St Stephen's Pedal Viol). It also bumped the versions form 1.00 to 1.01 for the St Stephen's and 1.01 to 1.02 for the St Augustine's. I'm very willing to change the installer, I just don't know how to best go about getting the same end result... (both organs still load perfectly fine on my PC).

How do I create a CODM rank with five files in one place and the other 27 in another? Or 56 in one place and the other 5 in another directory?

Would it be better to create three installer files.. one for the St Stephen's (and send it to Zion Organs), one for the St Augustine's (and send it to Nick), and one for the conglomerate with just the images and odf?

Your guidance is needed here :-)

GrahamG
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Re: Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby mdyde » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:04 am

Hello Graham,

You would need to:

- Ask Brett to allocate you a unique installation package ID, if you haven't already done that.

- Put all of your extra WAV files in that installation package.

- Make sure you have Nick Appleton's permission to edit and redistribute those derived samples, of course.

- Create a separate CODM Rank entry for each of the top/extended parts of the ranks, additional to those for the bottom/main part.

- Set the installation package IDs for the bottom/main parts to the relevant packages of Nick Appleton's.

- Set the installation package IDs of the top/extended parts to be your package.

- Create additional CODM StopRank entries to attach the top/extended parts to the same stops as the bottom/main parts, with the appropriate note ranges.

(and correct three notes in the St Stephen's Pedal Viol).


You could either request that those notes be corrected/improved as an enhancement request to Nick Appleton, or you could use additional Rank and StopRank entries in your CODM for just those three notes, in the same way as above.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby ggoode_sa » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:12 am

Thanks Martin,
I was hoping there was a simpler way than creating more Ranks and StopRank references. Oh well... more work to do :shock:

Sorry for the bother so far folks :oops: we're learning things as we go here!

GrahamG
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Re: Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby mdyde » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:22 am

P.S. The other (very quick and easy) way to extend the compasses of existing ranks in the CODM is just to set the Rank.NumberOfPipes to 61 or 32 (keep Rank.Samples_SampleMIDINoteNumOfLastAvailableSample set to the note number of the highest available sample) and let Hauptwerk use real-time re-pitching to play the extended pipes.

The results won't be as good quality (since you can use higher-quality/slower pitch-shifting to make extended samples 'off-line') but you wouldn't then need to distribute any extra samples at all.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby ggoode_sa » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:27 am

Hi Martin,
For the four Pedal ranks this would likely be a good way to go as it is only two extra notes (and they are not very often played). The 5 extra notes on the manuals.. well I'll give it a try and see how it sounds. I think for the twelfth and the fifteenth from the St Stephen's I will need the real samples (as that top octave is used in many of the mixture ranks), but if your suggestion sounds ok then it will greatly reduce the amount of rework needed.

Thanks!
GrahamG
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Re: Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby ggoode_sa » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:45 am

Hi Guys,
Right, I've followed Martin's 'easy' advice and simply replaced all the additional samples for the St Stephen's and the St Augustine's with Hauptwerk real-time re-pitched notes. The new CODM and installer have been uploaded to my work-in-progress site, so you can go ahead and give it a try. I have also followed Martin's Un-install, re-install proceedure for the St Stephen's and St Augustine's and everything is working as expected on my desktop computer.

If you have already installed the first version of the FreeCathedral then please uninstall it before installing the new one.

The new installer can be downloaded from http://www.sa-virtualorgans.co.za/downloads/FreeCathedral.CompPkg.Hauptwerk.rar (It's about 0.5 megs)

The updated CODM can be downloaded from http://www.sa-virtualorgans.co.za/downloads/FreeEnglishCathedral.CustomOrgan.rar

Many thanks to Martin for helping me sort this out!

GrahamG
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Re: Sharing a 'Work In Progress' English Cathedral Organ

Postby mdyde » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:37 am

Thanks, Graham!
Best regards,
Martin.

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