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Which instrument to play Bach?

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby Eric Sagmuller » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:30 am

Anton Heger wrote:
For now I'm just using my pseudo surround, but next I will try the surround on the demo. I'm anxious to see how that sounds.

I'm too; what do you like most??


I'll let you know. It may be a little while before I get to try it.

I know with the pseudo, I am adding a little more reverb to the rear, so it makes it sound a little more wet which I like. Maybe the real surround that comes with it will do the same.

I've also thought more about the Kampen tuning fluctuations that seem somewhat excessive. I think much of it has to do with the long reverb. I know if I sustain some of the chords for the past reverb to fade away it sounds quite clear. But there still seem to be some that continue to waver quite fast in certain chords.
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Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby Marco » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:55 pm

stevebryson wrote:Nun komm der heiden in the Orgelbuchlein


I assume you mean BWV-659? it's definitely one of my favorite pieces as well (besides the triosonate and the passacaglia).

It's a bit late for the original poster of this thread but it's interesting to listen to BWV-659 played by the same person on both the Trost and the Hinsz for folks that are on the fence between the two, the youtube organist also posted a version played on the Freiberg Silbermann

Trost: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLFcZlVMSvI

Hinsz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfF0gO8KT_A

Freiberg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhGFN7D-scE
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Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby pat17 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:25 am

Marco wrote:It's a bit late for the original poster of this thread but it's interesting to listen to BWV-659 played by the same person on both the Trost and the Hinsz for folks that are on the fence between the two, the youtube organist also posted a version played on the Freiberg Silbermann

Trost: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLFcZlVMSvI

Hinsz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfF0gO8KT_A

Freiberg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhGFN7D-scE


Thanks Marco, it's really interesting to be able to compare the three instruments this way - same organist, same console, same piece.

Surprisingly, if I had to choose based on those videos, I would have ranked them this way

1. Trost
2. Silbermann
3. Hinsz

Although I have since then been for the Hinsz. And I do not regret it for a split second - this organ has a wonderful sound and a magnificent reverb...

Selecting an instrument is definitively not an easy task, unless you may try all of them...
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Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby ernst » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:21 pm

Hello Patrick,

I own Trost and Freiberg and love them both. The sample set qualities of both are superb.

The Trost has more variety in sounds and is praised as an alternative to the Silbermann and Schnitger sounds. However, Trost is rather dry (to me personally JUST acceptable, about 2.5 sec reverb).

I very much enjoy Freiberg, which to me has just the most beautiful Principals (8'/4'/2') and also has 8/4/2 Principals on both the Hauptwerk AND the Oberwerk. The reverb of about 4.4 sec is to me the ideal between hearing well your faults and enjoying that sound of an organ in a large church.

If I had to chose for one of those 2, I would go for Freiberg. I switch between the Diffuse and Direct versions, still not knowing which I like best; luckily they come both in the package.
I load them in 24 bits/lossless compression: Trost 6.7 GB and Freiberg 13.5 GB. If you just load the front ranks of Freiberg the RAM use will of course be substantially less, however the sound with headphones is much better when I load both front and rear ranks.

Note that the initial load of an organ takes more memory than later cached loads (info of Martin Dyde).
I could download Freiberg from Jiri Zurek's website (on request).

I have a monitor with 1366*768 resolution, and although Hauptwerk v4 puts the complete console on screen, I can't then read the names of the stops. When I change the monitor resolution to 1280*1024 the text is clearer (although stretched horizontally) but still not very clear for both organs. I have made a paper copy of the Freiberg console with typed stop names in order to read them more easily. A 1280*1024 monitor is planned....

Good luck!
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Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby pat17 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:20 am

Thanks for sharing your experience Ernst! 8)

The choice is now over for met - as I have selected the Hinse of Kampen, which I do not regret for a split second - but it's interesting to have valuable information on its challengers.

Trost "dryness" was definitively was have put me off from this sample. Too bad actually, as its sound is beautiful. Some would say that reverb is not the key element when selecting a sampled set, but for me it matters a lot.

Freiberg is a 2-Manual set, which was the reason for which I didn't consider it - I wanted to go for a 3-Manual one or more.

Hinsz became then an obvious choice : very wet, beautifully recorded, I managed even to purchase the three volumes though expensive more quickly than initially expected. A disaster for my wallet, but a real pleasure for my ears! 8)
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Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby ernst » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:05 pm

Hello Patrick,

I fully agree that Hinsz (3) is absolutely fantastic - I am also a happy user of that set. But I did not mention it as the discussion seemed to circle around Trost and Freiberg, and also because with its 7 sec reverb Hinsz is not the best organ for practicing.
Aren't we fortunate to have such wonderful (virtual) instruments to our disposal?

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Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby pat17 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:16 am

ernst wrote:Aren't we fortunate to have such wonderful (virtual) instruments to our disposal?


Absolutely! I don't know what about you in Peru, but as for me in the U.A.E., should Hauptwerk were not available, it would be a complete desert... 8)
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Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby Mick Berg » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:21 pm

For me the definitive recording of Bach is Lionel Rogg's "L'oeuvre d'orgue" at the Arlesheim Silbermann (Harmonia Mundi). But so far I haven't heard a sample set that has that energy and power. I wonder if the Rogg recording was doctored in any way.
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Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby OrganoPleno » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:18 am

Mick Berg wrote:For me the definitive recording of Bach is Lionel Rogg's "L'oeuvre d'orgue" at the Arlesheim Silbermann (Harmonia Mundi). But so far I haven't heard a sample set that has that energy and power.

These three Sample Sets (among others) clearly beat the Arlesheim for "energy and power":
Trost Organ by OAM (late Baroque)
Stade Organ by OAM (early Baroque)
Caen Cavaille-Coll by Sonus Paradisi (French Romantic).

The PAB by IA is also good if you want a more modern sound.

Depending on your taste, one of these might be just what you are looking for.
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Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby Mick Berg » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:30 pm

OrganoPleno wrote:
Mick Berg wrote:For me the definitive recording of Bach is Lionel Rogg's "L'oeuvre d'orgue" at the Arlesheim Silbermann (Harmonia Mundi). But so far I haven't heard a sample set that has that energy and power.

These three Sample Sets (among others) clearly beat the Arlesheim for "energy and power":
Trost Organ by OAM (late Baroque)
Stade Organ by OAM (early Baroque)
Caen Cavaille-Coll by Sonus Paradisi (French Romantic).

The PAB by IA is also good if you want a more modern sound.

Depending on your taste, one of these might be just what you are looking for.


Thanks, I'll check them out.
EDIT: Well at $800 the Trost is $775 over budget, so I'll have to pass on that one................. :(
At the moment I have no budget. I really like the sounds of the Ott practice organ, so I will try making make a CODF with that plus a few other stops from other places.
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Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby pat17 » Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:54 am

OrganoPleno wrote:
Mick Berg wrote:For me the definitive recording of Bach is Lionel Rogg's "L'oeuvre d'orgue" at the Arlesheim Silbermann (Harmonia Mundi). But so far I haven't heard a sample set that has that energy and power.

These three Sample Sets (among others) clearly beat the Arlesheim for "energy and power":
Trost Organ by OAM (late Baroque)
Stade Organ by OAM (early Baroque)
Caen Cavaille-Coll by Sonus Paradisi (French Romantic).

The PAB by IA is also good if you want a more modern sound.

Depending on your taste, one of these might be just what you are looking for.


Sorry to appear some kind of rude, but is it relevant to compare a Silbermann with a Cavaille-Coll?

These two organ builders belong to completely different eras and styles...
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Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby Mick Berg » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:00 pm

I would agree with that, I also wonder about the whole premise as the Arlesheim organ hasn't been sampled, AFAIK.
But I apprecuiate the OP's effort to help.
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Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby Lia » Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:56 pm

The Arlesheim organ has been sampled by OAM! See here: http://www.organartmedia.com/silbermann-metzler
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Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby Mick Berg » Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:30 pm

Wow! Thanks for pointing that out. I think my argument still stands because it isn't available yet.

But that's great news. Unfortunately in the New America in which I find myself living, I probably will never be able to afford it. I look forward to hearing demos.

Thanks,
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Re: Which instrument to play Bach?

Postby profeluisegarcia » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:21 pm

....AND THE ANSWER IS... (drums playing).
Sorry....(drums silent)...
My answer is: Recently released Silbermann of Arlesheim. Why?

I dedicated many hours to review my Bach´s repertoire in this organ -and perhaps as Lionel Roog did- I discovered that any kind of the Master´s music fits in this organ marvelously sampled, from the most delicate chorals until BWV 548.
My first goal was to get the Kampen´s Hinsz in one year, but I had had to wait until getting the volume 3 to play the stop I like and need most in this organ: its Vox humana. Anyway, someday I will play this instrument.

Each one of the stops of Arlesheim´s Silbermann sings beautifully, in particular its Cromorne and Vox humana for solos; even their trumpets are tender and mild,. Its mixtures speak for themselves; usually we suppose to need strong diapasons to accompany them, but they sing extremely well with other stops.

The only shortcoming of this organ -from my view- is the lack of Positive/pedal coupler. When I use the Vox humana in solos I would like the have some of the soft Positive stops in the pedal. ¡Who knows why Herr A. Silbermann did not include this coupler! I have been told that HW4 allows to include this coupler, but I do not know how to do it. Any help is highly appreciated.

Break is over. Silbermann and some enchanted fellows :o are waiting for me.
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