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A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

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A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby Morse » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:15 am

I am very impressed with the new Velesovo organ from Sonus Paradisi. My opinion is that it deserves more than just the standard two manual organ implementation. So I have fabricated a three manual version by loading certain ranks multiple times and spreading them over three manuals. Here is the resulting stop layout:
3ManualScreenshot
This organ sounds identical to the original version if only the original stops are used, but there is a lot of extra flexibility available when needed.

Here is the organ installation file. It is very small because it only uses samples from the Sonus Paradisi version of the Velesovo surround sample set (which must be previously installed):
InstallationFile

The new installation adds a few new images and installs as organ number 800828.
Since a new organ number is assigned, the original Velesovo Surround installation is not affected in any way. It requires about 9.5GB to install at 16bit.

In general, the new ranks are slightly modified using Hauptwerk's built-in voicing parameters. For example, the Oberwerk Trumpet is really a duplicate of the Hauptwerk Trumpet, slightly brightened and with tremulant added. The Unda Maris is an appropriately de-tuned Rohrflute duplicate. The Oboe8 is a duplicate Fagot16 offset by 12 notes and brightened at the low end. The Cornett stop just plays appropriate copies of four Positiv ranks simultaneously.

One caveat: Since I am in the USA, I cannot use Hauptwerk's wind model. I could adjust those parameters if someone in another country was willing to help and test it.

P.S.
A further three manual enhancement has been created which provides a more contemporary version of the organ. This version has two Celestes, expressive Swell and Choir divisions, lots more couplers, and a Crescendo pedal.
3ManualScreenshot
And is likewise free.
ContemporarySurround InstallationFile
It is discussed in more detail under a different subject heading.
Last edited by Morse on Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby dhm » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:48 pm

Al, Just one question: Have you de-tuned the 32' Untersatz to 16', or is that a typo?
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Re: A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby Morse » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:55 pm

It's a typo. the Untersatz is 32'
Thank you for pointing that out!

Both the screenshot and the installation file are fixed now.
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Re: A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby micdev » Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:34 pm

Many thanks Al

I know that Jiri is open to these ideas of custom organs. I did something similar on a project using the Caen and JOrgan (not being familiar at that time with CODM I needed a qucik way to do it). I customize the Caen (to fulfill the organist request..) by adding a crescendo and additional couplers.

While I'm not in favour of using ranks A-B-C from organ 1 and ranks X-Y-Z from organ 2 to create a composite organ for various raisons (different acoustics, weird mix of ranks etc), expanding the way you do it is great and adds value to the instrument (more flexible, more possibilities).

Some may find the graphics a bit "crude" being used to photo-realistic console, but while when showing Hauptwerk a photo-realistic console is always a big hit, in real life, when playing, we want easy to use controls, logical layout, clean display... we are already busy enough with the playing :lol:

Great work and thanks for sharing

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Re: A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby Contrabaixons » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:24 am

Dear Al Morse,

it is possoble to use also the sample-set Velesovo WET for your three-manual organ model.
Not all the people have the possibility to drive surround-sample-sets.

Thank you for your answer
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Re: A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby Morse » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:25 am

Hello Contrabaixons,
I believe that it is possible to load the extended Velesovo as a wet set only by simply not loading the rear samples.
To do this, just check "no" for these ranks while doing a "Load organ, adjusting rank audio routing..."

The first time any organ is loaded Hauptwerk automatically checks yes for all these options, so you will have to load it with the "Load organ, adjusting rank audio routing..." option instead of the "Load organ ..." option.

I don't know how many people buy Velesovo and want to use it without Surround Sound. If more than two or three people contact me for that option I will generate a separate ODF for just the wet organ and simplify things for them. In fact, I don't have any way of knowing how many people will use my Surround Sound version, so I would love to hear from anyone who thinks it is useful.
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Re: A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby bourdon » Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:41 pm

Congratulations and many thanks to Morse ! This is great ( and surely hard) work !

When you have some time, could you eventually explain the detailed process to achieve this kind of enhancement with the CODM which I find , like many other people, quite complicated and long to do ?

Anyway, a tip for european users: as you may have noticed, it is necessary to disable the wind model, otherwise, the whole organ plays with a trem. on.

A last question: I loaded the organ in 20 bits with all loops, but , still, playing detached notes ( even without exagerating) brings this "bell" effect giving high thirds in the reverb, like it used to be in older models ( St Maximin for instance). Of course, you don't get that with the original Velosovo .
So, does anyone have the same problem ? And is there a solution?

Anyway, thanks again very much to Morse, who has opened new sharing prospects for our community !

Best regard.

( P.S. : speaking of St Maximin, and hoping Jiri will read those lines, may I say we are getting each day more impatient
to discover the new version !!!!!)
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Re: A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby Morse » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:21 pm

There should be no "bell effect" since the extended version uses the same short release samples as the original organ. I must admit that I have not loaded the organ in 20 bits, so maybe there is something I missed that does not load the releases properly above 16 bits. I will look into that.
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Re: A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby B. Milan » Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:18 pm

There should be no "bell effect" since the extended version uses the same short release samples as the original organ.

The CODM does not feature multiple release samples in v. 3.30, so even if the original sample set has multiple release you will not be able to use these with any CODM generated file and will only be able to use single releases. So you may very well experience this effect with a single release.


Anyway, a tip for european users: as you may have noticed, it is necessary to disable the wind model, otherwise, the whole organ plays with a trem. on.


I haven't tried this CODM file but I suspect the wind model settings are incorrect. Since Al lives in the US and does not have the wind model enabled he isn't able to test with this feature. I would suggest disabling the wind model if it causes too much movement of the sound since it isn't optimized for this set due to not being able to be tested by Al.
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Re: A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby Morse » Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:55 pm

Hello Brett and others,

While it is true that my organs start out in CODM, I have a post processor that adds the multiple releases. Evidently I didn't properly check that it works with all bit depths, but I think that is a minor problem that I expect to fix later today.
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Re: A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby Morse » Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:42 pm

I have revised the ODF and the multiple releases now work properly at all bit depths. The new version should be installed over the old one. The reason I had not checked the organ at 20 bits is that I only have 12GB and cannot fully load it at anything more than 16 bits. I used to think 12GB would be plenty, but it isn't when using wet surround sets.
For reference, here is the link for the organ again:
InstallationFile

Sorry for these embarrassing screwups, but the new installation file now has the typo corrected, the Wind model disabled, and works above 16bits for those who have sufficient memory.
Last edited by Morse on Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby bourdon » Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:51 pm

Don'y be sorry Al, on the contrary, I'm amazed by your skill !
Thanks again. I'm going to try right away.
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Re: A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby bourdon » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:39 pm

Well, I've just tried the new model Al Morse put on line and it works now quite nicely with the multiple releases.
The Posaune had two notes slightly out of tune ( G2 and G#2) . Adjusting the tuning of these notes wasn't any good, because when you change temperament, other notes become out of tune. So, I just reduced the detuning percentage to 3/4 in the detuning adjustement menu of the organ settings.

I'll keep on with the original Velosovo, for it is more lively with the wind model on ( it's a damn thing the US folk can't have benefit of the wind model !...). BUT, Al Morse's enhancement is still great and brings us with an altogether somewhat different and very interesting and useful organ. Cheers !
Wish I were as good as he is with the CODM, and I would have a try with Vollenhove or Freiberg ...
Best regards,
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Re: A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby GKruizenga » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:30 am

Hi all,

I have also tried the 3-manuals configuration and indeed when the wind-model is enabled all the registers sounds with a heavy trem. I have put the wind-model on 10% and this sounds much better. I will try the updated configuration for the multiple-releases fix.
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Re: A free three manual enhancment to Velesovo

Postby GKruizenga » Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:51 am

I think the problem with the reverb is caused when you load both the front and rear samples and route them to one-channel. I have loaded only the front samples and using the wind-model 50% and I don't hear any disturbing reverb.
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