What kind of SAMs are these?

Hello,

Finally I got my hands on some SAMs from an old console. But... no manual

I would like more information... Who made these? Are these any good for Hauptwerk? 12v or 24v?

Many thanks!

Frank

From the style of the knobs, and the general construction of the solenoid sections I'd say they were
almost certainly Kimber Allen, but old ones.

If they work at all, they should be fine for HW.

I would take one out altogether, clean it up, and get at it with a multimeter to identify the connections and resistance of the coils.

Nick

I'd say it's pretty obvious that the two connections at the bottom of the first pictures are the switch contacts.

Nick

Thank you very much for the reference. I am checking in with Kimber Allen.
Frank

They are old Kimber Allen ones, yes. I've used these in a HW console. They were a nightmare. Never again!

They were a nightmare. Never again!

Interesting. I'd expect the 'switches' to be very unsatisfactory at low voltages, were there other difficulties?

Nick

Ppytprs,
Could you please share what you mean by nightmare? If you faced challenges unsung KA sams, knowing the details would be extremely important to me, and perhaps useful to other forum users.

With thanks, Frank

The main problem with these is that the solder tabs are on the side not the top. So you can't solder them when they're in place. So you have to take them all out, solder them, and put them back. So then when a wire comes loose or you get a problem with a switch, you can't easily rectify it.
And yes, the switches aren't very good either.

Thanks for that explanation. I can work with soldering and wires. But what do you mean by "the switches are not very good either"? Do the break down, stop working over time, work intermittently? I would like to anticipate before I decide to put them in
Thanks again! - Frank

As a suggestion, try modifying the SAMS by removing the two spring contacts. Glue a strong earth magnet disc to the top of the slider protrusion which was used to short the spring contacts. The link below points to magnets which are 3mm in diameter.

https://boardwalkbuy.ca/products/100pcs ... magnet-set

Solder a reed switch to position it above the centre of the disc when the stop is pulled out. There are several offerings on ebay that would cost less than 50 cents each in quantities.

I can't vouch for the strength of this type of magnet being sufficient to actuate the reed switch, but at these prices it won't cost you much to give it a try. If successful, the cost of conversion per SAM will be less than 75 cents.

Ray

But what do you mean by "the switches are not very good either"? Do the break down, stop working over time, work intermittently?

Yes, all of these. Principally because they will be silver plated wires which inevitably tarnish over time. The old high voltage switching systems tended to introduce an element of self-cleaning, but modern 5V switching won't do this.

Ray's suggestion to replace the open switches with reed relay capsules should work just fine.

I can't see clearly in the pictures, but the rather complicated looking arrangement of bent wires on the other side to the switches may be some sort of 'toggle' spring which would keep the shaft pushed to one end or the other once the solenoids have pushed it 'over the hump' so to speak. If this still works well I'd leave it alone.

More modern KS solenoids use an opposed magnets system to achieve the same end. The moving magnet is used to switch the reed. This could be replicated but would be complicated to get right.

Nick

Yes, all of these. Principally because they will be silver plated wires which inevitably tarnish over time. The old high voltage switching systems tended to introduce an element of self-cleaning, but modern 5V switching won't do this.

Of course there are encoders that are designed to work with these older contacts, they just cost more! Companies like Peterson, Classic Organ Works, Syndyne, etc make products that have to work reliably in these environments. And yes, the the voltages switched are usually in the 12 - 24 volt range.

---john.

You could use (one per) (12 or so volt) relays operated by the existing switches (perhaps if they work) and use the relay contacts to operate an encoder. A little clunky, but it could work.

Rgds,
Ed

Before getting too carried away with complicated modifications (I thought the reed switch one was the best by the way), these switches will work, they just won't be as reliable as other methods. The organ that I did was 30 or so stops. When I delivered it to the customer, all but one were ok, and that last one was a bit intermittent. I was hoping that with regular use, it would come good. I've never had a call to go back to it, so either it does work, or the guy doesn't care!

Thanks for everyone for responding. This give me a good overview. And I am warned

I will start with testing these units, and cleaning the contact parts for sure, and then give it a try. I contacted the manufacturer and they recommended 15(16) volts. I could add some new units as well (I need more than I got).

In due time I will add a reply with an update on using these.

Frank