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Bergen op Zoom - sample set by Sonus Paradisi

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Bergen op Zoom - sample set by Sonus Paradisi

Postby zurek » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:49 am

I have the pleasure to introduce the Bergen op Zoom Sample Set, an early Romantic instrument from the time of the Catholic revival in Netherlands. It was built by R. Ibach in 1864 (op. 111), restored by the Verschueren company (op. 1111). The instrument consists of 3 manuals and a pedal, alltogether 42 sounding stops.  The sample set can be used in Hauptwerk version 4 and higher, the Advanced version is necessary due to the size of the virtual instrument. It is available in three variants.
    1.) Semi-dry, close up recording, stereo.
    2.) Wet-distant, microphones placed far from the organ, stereo. This variant is for free download without limitation (full set) for test, the payment is required for prolonged use.
    3.) Surround, 6-channel format. The listening position of the surround variant can be varied via a built-in mixer. The result is achieved by blending the direct and diffuse virtual pipes in any desired ratio.
More details, including the specification and audio demo samples of the instrument may be found on the Sonus Paradisi web pages.
 
The semi-dry and the surround variants are available for free dowload in a form of a cut-down DEMO sample set.
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Re: Bergen op Zoom - sample set by Sonus Paradisi

Postby adri » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:52 am

Congrats!
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Re: Bergen op Zoom - sample set by Sonus Paradisi

Postby dkoschinski » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:12 pm

I am impressed by the sound of the played demo's. Good mixing job, and nice acoustics ! My only remark is that the demo's in the mix sound pretty dry with the acoustics mixed-in straight away. I wonder what listening position would be emphasized with this ? From the console or in the church right under the organ balustrade ? It also seems that a lot of noise suppression has been applied to acoustics, because they sound rather flat. In any way: the German-Romantic aspect of this organ is clearly audible !
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Re: Bergen op Zoom - sample set by Sonus Paradisi

Postby adri » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:55 am

FYI:

http://www.zuidwesttv.nl/video/1335/Restauratie-Ibach-Orgel

It's in Dutch but provides plenty of visual information.
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Re: Bergen op Zoom - sample set by Sonus Paradisi

Postby Unda Maris » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:51 pm

The wet-version (100 €, without VAT) makes a divided impression on me. The original instrument is not sounded optimally in many stops. Thank goodness that can be ironed out again in the version of Hauptwerk, two hours of intonation work were already necessary. Especially in the two low octaves of the pedal stops I had to do well. The Gemshorn, the Cornett and the Mixture (II.) I made it a little quieter. Now I really like the Ibach Organ.
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Re: Bergen op Zoom - sample set by Sonus Paradisi

Postby adri » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:02 am

Unda Maris wrote:The wet-version (100 €, without VAT) makes a divided impression on me. The original instrument is not sounded optimally in many stops. Thank goodness that can be ironed out again in the version of Hauptwerk, two hours of intonation work were already necessary. Especially in the two low octaves of the pedal stops I had to do well. The Gemshorn, the Cornett and the Mixture (II.) I made it a little quieter. Now I really like the Ibach Organ.


For those interested, would you like to post the details on how you adjusted this version of the organ?
There are several people already struggling with the 100-euros superwet version.
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Re: Bergen op Zoom - sample set by Sonus Paradisi

Postby organplayer » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:30 am

I fully agree with unda maris. This sample set is really not good. And this is really unusual for Sonus Paradisi. Is that perhaps the reason why the Wet-Version is so cheap? Four things struck me above all: 1) Sharp and Mixture and others are shrill and too loud. 2) Most stops have a light vibrato. 3) The organ seems to have been considerably out of tune when the sample set was recorded. 4) The reverb is infinitely long and loud. Fast pieces can hardly be played.

In this context, the question: When you tune in the organ in Hauptwerk: Where is the information stored? In a separate file that you can share? The license terms are unlikely to be violated.
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Re: Bergen op Zoom - sample set by Sonus Paradisi

Postby OrganoPleno » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:04 am

adri wrote:For those interested, would you like to post the details on how you adjusted this version of the organ? There are several people already struggling with the 100-euros superwet version.


Here are my impressions on the new Sample Set, "Bergen Op Zoom".

First, the Organ is German, not Dutch, regardless of where it is located.
Second, the specification is Early Romantic, not High Romantic.
Third, the Restored Organ is essentially a new re-build on historic principles but with almost all new Pipework and Voicing.

Unusual for a "Romantic" Organ to have no Tremulant, and to have Swell expression only on one very small and soft division.

There are certain issues in voicing and balance, which can be easily addressed.

The free trial Rear Wet Distant set is a novelty and a Red Herring. It should NOT be used to evaluate the Sample Set.

Given this background, it is what it is, and I find that it can be very enjoyable and it can make beautiful music.

Here are the User Settings I have selected, where they differ from the defaults.

Over-all Volume was -10 by default, set to -15 to rule out any possibility of sound breakup on large chords with full registration.

Polyphony set to 7616 to match my hardware.

Full-load at 24 bits, uncompressed. Cache Size 31.2 Gb.

The Flute Angelica 8' (on Manual III) extends only down to Tenor C. This suggests use as a "special purpose" stop, which to me suggests making it into a Celeste. By raising the Pitch 10 cents (on all three recordings, direct and diffuse and rear), the entire character of the Instrument is wonderfully enriched, making up in part for lack of Tremulant and otherwise thin sound in places.

Both of the Mixtures (on Manuals I and II) are far too piercing. By reducing their volume 4 points (direct, diffuse, and rear), the problem is solved and they now blend well with the rest of the Instrument.

The Cornett (on Manual I) is a bit too piercing as well. By reducing the volume 2 points (direct, diffuse, and rear), again the problem is solved.

These Settings are saved in the User Settings File for this Organ (ID # 2084). By default (in Windows), that would be
C:\Hauptwerk, in the first folder called "Organ Settings".

I set up Floating Divisions so that Manuals I and II can be exchanged. The Great Manual (I) can play either on the Lowest Manual ("French Style", the default configuration), or on the Second Manual (a more common and generally more comfortable configuration for German Organs).

All couplers are "through couplers". What each one couples is carried forward by the next coupler as well.

I gave the Instrument my usual treatment setting up Pistons on the Console for Generals, Divisionals, Couplers, and so forth.

Concerning Registration... some of the Stop Names are unusual and deserve clarification. The "Jubal 8" in the Pedal is actually a String Stop, and a good match for the Violonbass 16. The "Dolce 8" on III is actually a soft Principal. The "Bassethorn 8" on II is another String Stop.

The "Euphone 8" on III is a Free Reed, with the sound of a Reed Organ.

The "Gemshorn 8" on I is, of course, a Hybrid Stop between Flute and String in character.

On all of my installed Organs, I set up a Piston for "Pianissimo" (typically Flutes 8' and 4') and a Piston for "Fortissimo" (typically as full a voice as sounds good on that Instrument).

For my Pianissimo voice on this Instrument, I used the following:
III) Flaut Angelica 8, Flaut Travers 4
II) RohrFlaut 8, Flaut Dolce 4
I) Grossgedekt 8, Hohlflaut 4
Ped) Subbass 16, Gedektbass 8
All Couplers ON.

For my Fortissimo voice (with voicing set up as described above):
All Stops ON, All Couplers ON.


For my General Presets... top row of Pistons has no Couplers active, middle row has all Couplers active, and lower row adds Reeds.

Five families of Voices: I) Strings, II) Simple Flutes, III) Full Flutes, IV) Simple Principals, and V) Full Principals.

For my String Voice:
III) Salicional 8, Viola 4, and Flaut Angelica 8 (voiced as a Celeste, as described above)
II) Bassethorn 8, Flaut dolce 4
I) Quintaton 16, Gamba 8, Gemshorn 8
Ped) Violonbass 16, Jubal 8

For added Reeds: Euphone 8 and Oboe 8.

This gives a string-like character, somewhat enriched. As with all of my presets, it is intended as a "starting point" for registration, and can be easily modified on the fly, adding or deleting a few voices as desired.

For Simple Flutes... same as "Pianissimo". For added Reeds, same as for "String Voice".

For Full Flutes, ADD the following:
III) Quintaton 8, Flageolet 2
II) Bourdon 16, Flautino 2
I) Quintaton 16, Gamba 8, Gemshorn 8
Ped) Violonbass 16, Jubal 8

For added Reeds: Euphone 8, Oboe 8, and Cornett

For Simple Principals:
III) Dolce 8, Flaut travers 4, Flageolet 2
II) Principal 8, Octav 4, Flautino 2
I) Principal 8, Octav 4, Octav 2
Ped) Principal 16, Octav 8, Octav 4

To each division, ADD all the Stops used for Simple Flutes.

For added Reeds: Euphone 8, Oboe 8, Cornett, and Pedal Trumpetbass 8

For Full Principals: ADD the following:
III) nothing added
II) Bourdon 16, Mixur
I) Principal 16, Quint, Scharff, and Cornett
Ped) Violonbass 16, Jubal 8, and Quintbass

For added Reeds: ALL Reeds... Euphone 8, Oboe 8, Fagott 16, Trompete 8, and Pedal Posaunebass 16, Trompetebass 8, and Claironbass 4


Hoping this gives a helpful overview and starting point for the enjoyment of this beautiful (if unusual) Sample Set!
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Re: Bergen op Zoom - sample set by Sonus Paradisi

Postby adri » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:05 pm

to OrganoPleno:

Thanks for that info; may be others will have additional suggestions to make the sampled set better.
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Re: Bergen op Zoom - sample set by Sonus Paradisi

Postby Fokko » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:44 pm

Hello,

For those who want to try and review the surround sampleset itself, please download the demopackages, find here and try out:
http://www.sonusparadisi.cz/en/blog/ber ... ample-set/

Please do c a r e f u l l y note the introduction of Jiri himself to the wet-distant version and so do not misguide yourself:
http://www.sonusparadisi.cz/en/organs/m ... organ.html
Wet-Distant - This particuar St. Gertrudis church offers an unusual long reverb characterized by a high envelopment (very slow decay) and relatively slow reflections. We liked this very much and therefore we employed an additional microphone pair to capture the sound of the organ at great distance. This recording contains very high portion of the diffuse reverberated sound. We did not intend to make this public and it served for a comparison only when creating the surround variant. However, we believe that there may be organists who may love the feeling of envelopment as much as we do, and therefore we decided to release this variant publicly as well. It is not suitable for practicing music, since the response of the tracker is not as immediate as one would need, but it may be liked for free improvisations while the spirit moves with the reverb to the endless space around.

Hope it helps.
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Re: Bergen op Zoom - sample set by Sonus Paradisi

Postby OrganoPleno » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:02 pm

Fokko wrote: This recording contains very high portion of the diffuse reverberated sound... It is not suitable for practicing music.


Comparing the "Distant" version with the "Surround" version... basically the Distant version lacks any attack, and has lots more echoes.

Lacking the attack is not an advantage. And if anybody thinks the Surround version needs MORE ECHOES (despite its being extremely wet already)... feel free to just dial up the Rear component on the Mixing Panel!
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Re: Bergen op Zoom - sample set by Sonus Paradisi

Postby dkoschinski » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:18 pm

Fokko wrote:Comparing the "Distant" version with the "Surround" version... basically the Distant version lacks any attack, and has lots more echoes.

Lacking the attack is not an advantage. And if anybody thinks the Surround version needs MORE ECHOES (despite its being extremely wet already)... feel free to just dial up the Rear component on the Mixing Panel!

Yes, of course. A very distant version always lacks any attack and it will contain more acoustics for sure, that's why the distance is much larger. That's obvious. In my opinion SP is selling the distant version in addition to the regular version (but still I don't understand why exactly). So it's not meant to be a 'poor man's' €100 version to save money on the regular version and so it is (as a stand alone version) absolutely not useful for study purposes.
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Re: Bergen op Zoom - sample set by Sonus Paradisi

Postby mdyde » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:41 am

organplayer wrote:In this context, the question: When you tune in the organ in Hauptwerk: Where is the information stored? In a separate file that you can share


Hello organplayer,

Hauptwerk's user voicing adjustments are stored within the organ-settings for the organ. The only means in Hauptwerk currently to allow those to be exchanged between users is by using Hauptwerk's backup/restore mechanism to create a backup and then to restore (in 'advanced' restore mode) just the organ settings for the desired configuration. However, doing so would overwrite all organ settings for all organs in that configuration.

We do have an enhancement request logged to provide a dedicated means for exchanging just voicing for organs individually in the future.
Best regards,
Martin.

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