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Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Search by Licence Type

Postby George Langley » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:55 am

Hi all. Is there a way to search for instruments by licensing type?
Am somewhat disappointed in my recent purchase of the highly-recommended Stade sample set by OrganArt Library, to find out that it is pretty much only useful for personal practice.
To be fair, I haven't enquired into the "special permission required to use the database work for public installations", as mentioned on OAL's License page, and I currently only own a "Private Installation License" for Hauptwerk itself. But if down the road, I want to upgrade my Hauptwerk to a Public Installation (to use at my Church, for instance), I would be worried that I may still not be able to use my Stade licence with it. And if the crackdown on YouTube and Concert Hall recordings is still being enforced, as outlined in this 2014 thread, then you can't even share your performances for free.
The Instrument Search doesn't offer a licence option, but I would be more discerning in my future purchases and licensing would definitely influence my decision. Would want to know that it can be used in public installations, or on recordings, etc.
So, is there a way to search samples sets by their licencing requirements, or does one have to research each set individually? Thanks.
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Re: Search by Licence Type

Postby sonar11 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:17 pm

If you want to do public performances, then pretty much any purchase from OAM would be against that license.

Many/most (all?) of Sonus Paradisi allow you to do public performances.
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Re: Search by Licence Type

Postby George Langley » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:28 am

Right, which is why I think the Instruments database needs to be searchable by the "Licence Type" table.
Not sure how many types there would need to be, but would want to know if it can be used in Public Installations, in recordings, etc. without requiring additional permissions or fees. Right now, everything seems to come up as "Commercial", which doesn't really mean anything - if OrganArt Media doesn't allow public performance or recordings using their samples, then how is that "Commercial"? Compared to Sonus Paradisi "Commercial" or any other company that allows full use of their sounds? Would mean that Hauptwerk would need to update the Instruments to indicate their real Licence Type.
Also, the search feature could also be improved to allow you to select more than one criteria, ie. Vendor and Style. As it is now, you can only select a Vendor and you'll get all instruments by that Vendor, without being able to narrow it down to a certain Style by that Vendor.
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Re: Search by Licence Type

Postby Grant_Youngman » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:12 am

I don't know about YouTube, but there are plenty of current recordings of Stade currently on concert hall. Maybe all of these folks have obtained permission(?). It's more likely the "recordings" provision applies to publicly distributed recordings, or especially recordings made for profit, etc. Could be wrong of course. But on Contrebombarde at least, and other private venues, recordings aren't in any sense competing with traditional organs — they're supporting the interest in traditional organs.

When listing to concert hall recordings of an instrument you might want to purchase, the information regarding sample set provider is available — just click on the name of the sample set on the right hand side of the page when you pull up a recording. Or look at the providers' website to see what they're offering, and what's covered.

I'd say, regardless of sample set provider, if you want to put ABC organ in your church or play a public concert with it, it probably would be a good idea to (1) read the license agreement again, and (2) contact the provider anyway, just to make sure there isn't some special agreement with the church/organization that owns the instrument.

In OAM's case the stated purpose for the restriction is: "The sample sets … will awaken the interest for the organ heritage, but will not compete with traditional pipe organs nor replace them. Therefore, based on a special user license agreement, Prof. Maier does not allow the use of the sample sets in public venues such as churches."

It just is what it is.
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Re: Search by Licence Type

Postby George Langley » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:50 pm

The link in my OP shows how the current "titular" decided that "no more contributions are allowed on YouTube and ConcertHall". Which is why I think the Licence Type needs to be UPFRONT on the Instrument Search. Who would ever have thought that buying a professional instrument would have a limitation that you can't actually play it?
We are not collectors, happy to put it on the shelf and look at it once in a while. We fully intend to use it, and that means playing it in public, or making recordings.
I for one will be carefully reading the licence agreement for any possible future purchases before buying. But clarifying what a "Commercial" licence type is, and establishing a set of licence types that clearly indicate what you can and can't do with the Instrument, is paramount. Milan needs to work with the various Instrument manufacturers on this to help us determine which Instruments best suit our needs.
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Re: Search by Licence Type

Postby sesquialtera » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:13 pm

George, I sent you a PM ! :wink:
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Re: Search by Licence Type

Postby Grant_Youngman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:51 pm

George Langley wrote:The link in my OP shows how the current "titular" decided that "no more contributions are allowed on YouTube and ConcertHall".


Look at many recent Concert Hall recordings …

I don't intend to be negative here, but all you have to do before you drop several hundreds (in any currency that's applicable) on a sample set is to look at the LICENSE of the sample set provider. All of them publish their license on their website. It's pointless to continue to beat this relatively dead horse. I don't know if Prof. Maier is still on summer holiday, but you could certainly communicate directly with him if he is not.

As I see it at least, it isn't Concert Hall's responsibility to give license information, anymore than it would be to let you download the sample set from their site … their job is to provide a venue for HW recordings. License information is available directly from the sample set producer.

Personally, I think if OAM wants to limit "public" (however it's defined) performance of the instruments he has recorded and made available for HW, for whatever reason he or the owner (congregations?) chooses, he is welcome to do that. Other producers provide "dry" sample sets perfectly suitable for and allowed in public (auditoriums, churches, pizza parlors, street corners. whatever) by the producer and the owner of the instrument.

But you need to verify licensing with the PRODUCER of the sample set to see if it meets your needs, not CB.
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